Define 'sports car'

In My Humble Opinion
21

I’ll take that bet and heartily disagree. The technology in modern automatics has made the distinction rather moot. They match revvs, the preselect gears (I’m thinking the DSG tranny here) they hold gears in corners, and often have as many speeds as a stick.

I’d say an enthusiast who’s never tried to live with the shortcomings of a slushbox hasn’t fully explored the envelope of sportscars. I’d also say that someone who thinks a car can’t be a sportscar because it hasn’t got a clutch just snubbed a portion of the population who can’t, due to physical limitations, operate a stickshift.

I’d also point out the percentage of all sports cars purchased with automatics…It’s hovering around the 80% mark.

The OP’s contention is FORTY YEARS out of date.

I have two automatic Corvettes. One’s supercharged and quietly drives like a honda until you stand on it. Then it makes it’s presence known.

The other is a hairy torque monster that stalls, is rude and smelly, and will match or beat any car to 50 mph. It’s got a tracing tranny, high-stall torque converter, numerically high gears, and is currently being fitted with a ratchet shifter. (That said, if this goddamn transmission goes out again, it’ll get a stick)

http://www.millertwinracing.com/oldsite/badassitude.mp4 isn’t a sportscar? (I hope your computer has a sub-woofer, half the fun is in the low notes)

Folks are talking about a subsection bounded on one side by the Mini Cooper and the Bugatti Veyron on the other (yeah yeah, one’s a GT blah blah blah. It makes 1000hp and handles, you gonna turn it down?)

A sportscar is any vehicle with sporting pretensions that makes the driving experience pleasureable. Anybody tell you otherwise is selling something else. :wink:

22

Does your car have plastic side curtains? Cuz, you know, if you were a ‘purist’, you couldn’t have glass wind-up windows.

23

I’m willing to accept roll-up windows, because if I didn’t, I’d have to eliminate the Sunbeam Tiger. :smiley:

Everybody can be doing something, but that doesn’t make it right. :wink:

24

If “superior handling” is your key benchmark, that knocks out of the running most American cars built prior to the 1980s, unless you’re talking relative.

That said, I suggest going a step further and asking: What is a muscle car?

I recently started a thread (“Muscle Car Shootout”) and people were telling me that a 2006 Honda Accord would blow the doors off an old 60s/70s “muscle car.” Infinitely better handling too.

A sports car must look like a sports car–and perform like one too. No way in hell is a Honda Accord a sports car. Sporty? Perhaps.

25

Millions have died in religious wars over similar statements. Is choice of transmission on the same ideological level?

I find that I’m just about the only person that takes my stance in these debates. I love automobilia. That includes a LARGE number of torque converters. The folks that just can’t wrap their heads around automatics in a sportscar ARE A MINORITY.

‘Real sportscars don’t have automatic transmissions’. I can heartily say, my wobbly framed, convertible, automatic, 16 year old non-sportscar can take 99% of the cars+drivers out there. Does that make it any less real? Because if it does, let’s compare your times to shifter karts. They make any sportscar look like a pig. It’s all a matter of perspective.

I have two sportscars with automatics. It’s an agreement entered into with my wife. If I hadn’t done so, I’d have zero sportscars. Guess which I prefer?

26

Sports car: Any vehicle that fits two or more people uncomfortably, has poor visibility engineering, allows you to hear the tread beating against the road at high speeds, and is a shade of red.

And it should cost 47% more to repair.

We have a TransAm that fits this description.

27

Let’s race, Unintentionally Blank! The first ever SDMB racing showdown! :slight_smile:
I am of the opinion that any sports car has to have at least some semblance of power, and anyone who says otherwise is driving a British roadster. But people here have converted me into allowing that some of those Brit cars, woefully underpowered as they are, would be fun to drive. This is borne out by those dang low-power Miatas beating me around the autocross track every time I go out :shakes fist:

I’d LIKE to include a MT in the requirements, but I realize it’s just my preferencde to have one.

28

Necros, You’re on! (and CLOSE by even!) My poor poor vette doesn’t even make 300 hp. (don’t ask about the torque…just concern yourself with the hp figures. :wink: )

Let’s go to Bandimere, run the quartermile, then go to the lower lot and rent karts. Cars are to friggen slow on the twisty turny tracks.

29

And I’ll add that at one (now defunct) track, I thought I was hot stuff turnin’ 88 mph at the end of the front straight in my hot 'merican Vette, only to hop in a Miata and find he was hitting the same speeds. Some cars make speed, other car’s carry and keep it.

30

That sounds like a ton of fun. I’ve really been meaning to get up to a Wednesday T&T night at Bandi before the season ends. I haven’t run my car up there yet, but it sounds like our HP is about even @ 300 (don’t ask about the weight…just concern yourself with the hp figures ;)) Plus, it’s got one of those magic Wankel grenading engines in it, so you’ve got an advantage there.

And I’ve heard good things about the karting track up there, too.

31

Gimmie the weekend to get the ratchet shifter mounted…unless you want me to bring the ‘well behaved’ car. One is quick on the short end of the track, the other is fast at the long end of the track.

(and I started with an 89 Turbo II, I knows about motors sans valves)

And we should include the full timeslip. Anybody can turn good trap speeds.

contact me offline at mike (at) millertwinracing (dot) com

32

Sure, the performance in an automatic is about the same as a stick, but automatics are just not very much fun to drive (and this includes paddle shifters, imo, you need the clutch). Driving pleasure is the whole point, and putting an automatic transmission in a sports car takes half the fun out of it.

Re: the British roadsters. My first car was a '74 Triumph Spitfire that I helped my dad restore. It was in no way, form, or fashion a sports car. More of a death trap, really.

33

Now, if you want to take this in another direction:

Are ‘modern’ sportscars too docile? (reguardless of transmission choice) They’re certainly quicker and handle better than all that have preceeded them, but they do so in such a civilized and anti-septic way.

34

Honestly, I haven’t driven all that many cars I would consider sports cars. My favorite car I’ve owned was an '84 300Z; recently I’ve driven a S2000 and a 350 Z (we own a Celica now, which is fun to drive but more sporty than sports). They are a little anti-septic, but I can’t really decide how much of a problem that is. The S200 is still a pretty rough ride and nice and cramped…I haven’t driven a 'Vette, I imagine it’s a bit cushier. Here’s one thing, though I know you wanted to keep transmission choice out of it: I think standard transmissions make a car feel less docile, because you control what the engine is doing. With the automatics, you’re more along for the ride.

35

I owned a 280Z (no X), and I now have a 'Vette. The Z had a smoother ride and more comfortable cockpit. The Z’s instrument panel was less intuitive, but the car was a '77, whereas, the 'Vette is a 2000. I would call the 'Vette a lot of things (A hole in the pavement to pour money into, comes to mind :smiley: ), but docile is one of them.
Both cars were very responsive, and quick off the line. The 'Vette is much more powerful.

I’ve driven a friend’s 300ZX. To me, it felt like a sedan with two seats. Maybe, because it was just too comfy.

36

[QUOTE=picunurse]
I owned a 280Z (no X), and I now have a 'Vette. The Z had a smoother ride and more comfortable cockpit. QUOTE]

Really? Hu, I never would have guessed. My ZX (sorry, left off the X in the previous post) was not especially cushy, but it probably needed new shocks, so maybe that was it. :slight_smile: I would have a hard time believing that it was more comfortable than a new 'vette. If it was, Chevy needs to work on their ride a bit, I think.

37

I read a column several years ago that I liked.

The point was that sports cars aren’t just about speed, they’re about skill. They should reward you when you learn how to pick a line through a corner, turn in, feed in power and feel the back end step out just a bit, and everything else. I’ve driven a Porsche 928, and it was fun, but to get the car to where it started to show its manners it was just absurdly beyond legal. I can have fun in my MG on a freeway off-ramp, because it’s not so refined that I can tell when I’m doing things right; and getting those skills right is part of the fun of a sports car.

Anybody can be fast in the Porsche. It takes a good driver to be fast in the MG.

38

If you leave it in 4th (OD, whatever) then yeah, it’s not so fun. Did you know can revv-match an auto. I have a race prepped 700r4 than I can make behave just_like a stick…but then also shift normally. That’s a 16 year old transmission. 4l60e, 4l65e, 4l80e and the new 6 speed autos from GM (co designed with Isuzu and Ford, IIRC) have the benefits of being computer controlled. Did you know if you pull the lever to ‘D’ it shifts harder and closer to redline? Did you know if you put it in 2nd, it stays in second? Did you know you can get more consistent drag-race starts by holding your left foot on the brake and bringing the engine rpm up a little with the right foot? (stab right foot, sidestep brake, hold on)

All this doesn’t include the dual-clutch stuff Audi makes, or the F1 derived trannies Ferrari, Maserati, et al, use.

Do I like driving a clutch? Hell yeah! My daily driver is a stick and it’s a BALL. I would not, however, dismiss a modern sportscar simply because it doesn’t have a clutch pedal.

39

They’re getting less and less about skill all the time.

GM’s super hot 505 hp Z06 Stick spends it’s whole life trying to keep the talentless lawyer-type behind the wheel from becoming a statistic. There’s sensors and software all over that puppy to keep you from looping it. Put it competition mode and you’ve gotta be Emerson Fittipaldi to drive faster than it can make a mediocre driver.

And rumor has it they’re releasing a 650 hp blown version next year. You cannot cannot cannot approach using 40% of it’s abilities on any public road in the US. And if you turned off the doodads, a significant percentage of these cars wouldn’t make it home from the dealer.

When you’re fast in an MG (or a miata for that matter) look down, you’re still not breaking the speed limit.