Sigh. I turned on the radio this afternoon and caught the last little bit of a phone-in show discussing the problems in our (Canadian) airline industry these days. They had an articulate and seeming intelligent expert answering questions. Good quality show, fairly informative. Anyway, the last caller said that the ‘expert’ had referred to a document on the Web and asked for the URL. The ‘expert’ said “Oh, I have no idea. I’m useless on the Internet, I had someone find it and print it out for me.” This is a paraphrase, but as close to the actual statement as I can get. It was not said with any embarrasment, was not offered as an apology, there was no sense at all that she thought that there was anything wrong with the statement. The message that came through was: the Web is confusing and real people should’t be expected to know how to use it.
Example 2: the VCR clock in the pre on-screen programming days - for a while it was a badge of honour if your clock was blinking 12:00 (or hadn’t been adjusted for daylight savings time). “They make it so durn confusing, I just can’t figger it out - nyuk, nyuk.” Or, “I’m waiting for little Johhny next door to come over and fix it for me.” The message that came through was: nobody knows how to use those stupid buttons and even if I did know, I can’t afford to look like a smartass.
Finding a web page isn’t rocket science (although I will admit that there are some subtleties involved). Setting the clock on a VCR using lowly push buttons is not rocket science. Sheesh, if you can set a clock radio and can read the labels on the VCR buttons, you could probably get through it. The point is, it’s somehow socially acceptable to not know how to do these things. I’ve got a friend who literally doesn’t know how to use an ATM. And tries to impress women at parties with this fact (never works, by the way). My Father can read and write email messages but he can’t reply to one or use his address book. Excuse? The old “It’s just too durn confusing.” I could probably go on for days, but you get the point.
It seems to me that more often than not, there’s this awkward deliberate ignorance when a new tech is introduced. The question is: why? Is it just resistance to change? Don’t want to look smarter than your friends? You’re afraid that if word gets out that you can set a VCR clock, you’ll have to set all the clocks in the neighborhood? If you know how to find a web page, people will assume that you spend your entire work day surfing for smut? Finally, is it generational or does it just quietly fade away more quickly than that?
Of course, none of the above applies to the intelligent and capable people here. I’d like to know what you think, though …
I think it’s sort of generational, sort of ‘need to know.’ I am always amazed and frustrated by how my father cannot understand or remember how to use a computer or the WWW. On the other hand, I probably drive him crazy by not being able to disassemble my car’s engine and recall each part’s name and functionality. I grew up using computers, so computers are sort of a second nature to me. My father grew up as a cam-head in the '50’s, so cars are sort of a second nature to him.
Pretentions towards not understanding technology- as far as I have seen- fall into one of three categories:
[ul][li]The “I’m too old to learn” (not true, but creates a generational identity with others who are confused or scared of all of the ways technology is changing)[/li][li]The “I’m too cool to learn” (the feeling that people who understand technology are nerds and geeks, and in order to keep from being labeled a nerd or a geek, one must profess complete confusion by such devices)[/li][li]Or, the “I’m way to busy to learn” (that your life is far too important and hectic to bother trying to decipher a poorly-worded and put-together manual, or figure out how the UBB codes work, or whatever.)[/ul][/li]
JMCJ
Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!
Thanks. bantmof: even I don’t know how to pull that one off, I’ll have to find and then check the manual.
Manda JO: I’m not going there, don’t even ask. Every woman I’ve had in my inner sanctum has been able to embarass me daily on things I should have figured out already. Your gender has got to have some kind of secret society going. Maybe some small minority has figured out how to use looks and hair to get what you want, the rest of you are just outright smart and occasionaly devious.
SuperNerd, (regarding your response to Manda JO), Fritz Leiber has already addressed the issue in his book, Conjure Wife.
As to your OP, I didn’t hear the interview, but I do know a good many people who have very complete lives that never get near the web. The lady may have been guilty of exactly what you accuse her–or she may have a 60 hour per week job that relies on large quantities of printed text and has had no need, thus far, to actually apply herself to learning the internet. While I agree that the internet is a marvelous tool, there are still a great many pieces of information that have not made it onto the net–and nearly everything available on the net is available in hard copy. Another aspect is that a lot of stuff that is on the net is new on the net. I often have to research things for my job and I am constantly frustrated by the number of times I have found an original source, asked for a URL, and been told that they haven’t gotten around to providing a web site (and don’t understand what FTP is).
If that woman’s job is heavily document oriented, she may not yet have had the requirement or opportunity to bother learning the net.
(As an example, the various country codes that are used as extensions in URLs are (with one exception) created from the ISO3166 standard of country codes. There are currently at least four web sites that list all the codes together with more or less additional information. A very few years ago, I was trying to establish a table of those codes for use in a company’s billing system. The ISO people told me that the only way to get an accurate list was to tell my client to register with ISO and accept periodic mailings.)
In a couple of years, I’ll agree with your assessment, but at the moment, I’m willing to cut some slack for people that are not Wired.
Tom/Debb: Okay, but. She apparently quoted from a web page in public, on the air and then couldn’t figure out how to give the rest of us the URL. Even if her job has not yet provided the ‘requirement or opportunity to bother learning the net’, her flunkies could have given her the freaking address, right? The point is, she dismissed the whole concept out of hand. And didn’t apologize.
More on the VCR concept … how often have you seen a microwave with the clock set to the wrong time? Same concept, different generation.
The views presented above apparently do not represent the views of my wife
None of my VCRs have the time set because (a) they are a pain in the ass and you need to pull out the damn manual to figure out how to set them evey time and (b) every time the power fickers they reset to 12:00. After about the 20th time I said the hell with it.
JBENZ: at least that’s a valid excuse. And, how many VCRs do you have there?
When we went on daylight savings, I counted 18 clocks that had to be reset here. Pain in the patoot, but I did them all and everything says more or less the same time now (give or take a couple minutes). Every device had its own unique setting method, from the computers (none - Microsoft actually got one thing right) through the VCR (on screen) and on to the smart thermostat (counterintuitive and confusing). I didn’t need a manual for any of them - anyone with any common sense could figure each of them out. Maybe there’s a general lack of common sense?
Now, 18 clocks might be a bit more than the average house, but I’d bet that there’s at least eight in most: VCR, microwave, computer, clock radio, car, wristwatch, oven, one wall clock. Either someone has to reset all of these occasionaly or you get to live in your own private time zone. Back to the original question: you’d be fairly embarrassed if someone asked for the time and you admitted that you couldn’t tell becuase you didn’t know how to set you watch. But, the blinking 12:00 (or 1:00?) on the microwave/VCR is dismissed because …
I’ll try to find a copy of Conjure Wife - when did it come out? Leiber is mostly science fiction, isn’t he?
Yeah, Leiber wrote a lot of science fiction, and also horror and fantasy.
I haven’t read Conjure Wife yet, it’s one of the books I’ve been meaning to get around to. He’s become one of my favorite authors lately, though; I highly recommend his Lankhmar books.
*SuperNerd: When we went on daylight savings, I counted 18 clocks that had to be reset here. Pain in the patoot, but I did them all and everything says more or less the same time now (give or take a couple minutes). *
I found it’s just easier to move west one time zone every April and back east in October.
I still have one clock (on my stereo) that is still EDT. I forget about it 'cause the VCR and alarm clocks are in the same room. And I don’t use the auto-timer on it anyways.
[QUOTE]
Back to the original question: you’d be fairly embarrassed if someone asked for the time and you admitted that you couldn’t tell becuase you didn’t know how to set you watch. But, the blinking 12:00 (or 1:00?) on the microwave/VCR is dismissed because …
[QUOTE]
I’ve got a working watch that already tells me the time.
I’ve also got clocks on my walls, and anywhere in my (admittedly small) house where there’s an appliance to tell me the time, there’s also a clock on the wall nearby. So setting my microwave or stereo to tell the correct time seems a bit superfluous- work for no gain, especially once a blackout hits and I have to drag out all of the manuals again.
JMCJ
Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!
An ex-girlfriend of mine had a macho father who immediately threw out the manual for anything he bought. I guess he figured that if he can’t figure it out on his own, it ain’t worth figuring out. Or that looking anything up shows the world that you have a small penis. Or something.
Tried to teach my granpa how to e-mail me yesterday, and if that wasn’t an excersise in futility, I don’t know what is.
He bought a really nice coputer last year, signed up for internet service, and called me over to teach him how to use the thing. I hooked it up for him, and found, to my horror, he didn’t even know how to turn it on.
After the first thirty minutes, we had gotten no further than the Connect icon on the desk top. Finally, I said the hell with it, and wrote him out extremely detailed instructions on how to get stock quotes (I saved the page in Favorites, and deleted all others) and how to send e-mail.
He tried, once, and now he pays the girl next door to come over and pull up the stock quotes he wants. He’s rejected e-mail entirely. He drives thirty minutes to my house and leaves a note in my mailbox.
I told my mother last year when she bought him the fax machine that he wouldn’t use that either. I pointed out that he had a sattalite dish, but only watched one channel because he can’t figure out how to change it. But she said, “Oh, come on! A three year old child can use a fax machine!” My grandmother has a plant sitting on it now.
My apologies - I’ve been otherwise occupied bashing down the Christmas and programming demons for a couple of days and with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, I probably should have started this topic when I actually had time to participate in it. Okay, having said that: I’ve learned a lot about the protocol here - One) be prepared to jump in and drag the thread back to the point. Two) be prepared to jump in with gems of wisdom once in a while to bring it back up to the top of the list. Let’s see what I can do to try to save this topic (part two is, by default, already done) …
AWB:
Brilliant and thank you, I’m surfing the MLS service in another window to see If I can pick up houses in alernative time zones. If I move often enough, I can probably cut years off my age.
tracer:
Lissa:
Thank you both for relevant comments on the original qestion, that whole VCR clock thing was a side issue.
Okay, how about this: I’ve been programming computers for money since 1970. Along the way, I’ve had to learn a lot and as of this writing, I’m still keeping up. Some of my contemporaries, however, are still stuck in the 80’s and have more or less given up on the tech. They can still make money working on 1970’s mainframe systems and couldn’t give a rat’s arse about this new fangled PC fad. Seriously: I know at least three people who refuse to get a home computer because they think that ‘work is work, home is home’.
Back to the question: what causes this kind of irrational resistance? So far we’ve got: [ul][]Too proud/macho/male/whatever to admit that you can’t figure it out[]Afraid to be labelled a nerdCreeping senility[/ul]Let me know it I’ve left something out …
Interesting. Kind of harkens back the ditsoid on the radio show in the OP: “I’m much too important to know what’s going on in the world - I’ll have my people contact your people.”
I’m concerned about the trend in the schools-where knowledge and the pursuit of it , are constantly trashed. Witness the ebonics business, or the downgrading of history 9in favor of trendy subjects).
OK, that was completely nonconstructive, so I’ll post the links and simply let you stamp out your own ignorance. I’m tired of people not understanding this concept:
