Think of it this way – you know a guy named Peter. He goes by “Peter” or sometimes “Pete”. One of your other friends doesn’t like Peter much, and every time he sees him, he makes a point of calling him “Petey”. He continues to do so even after Peter says he prefers Peter or Pete. Wouldn’t you say that’s being insulting? Particularly if he starts trying to convince other people to do it as well? Even though plenty of people don’t mind being called “Petey”?
I look at it this way. Pete can probably tell by voice inflection and body language that the speaker is attempting to start trouble. His first reaction was correct, in that, he asked not to be called that.
This is the very first time, anywhere, that I have seen the word “Democrat” called demeaning. Honest.
Read this: Democrats may revise 2002 bill allowing Bush to call war - CNN.com
Was the CNN reporter really trying to piss you off? I dont think so. At least, I don’t imagine that CNN is usually accused of being particularly partisan or hateful towards the Democratic Party…
If you do get pissed off reading that, maybe your looking for something, anything, to be pissed off about…
You have completely missed the point of this thread. Try reading it from the top to catch up. Your question was answered very early on.
Uh … haven’t you been reading the thread? The issue is the use of “Democrat” as an adjective in place of “Democratic”. Things like: Democrat Party, Democrat voters, Democrat candidate, Democrat legislation, etc.
No one in here arguing that the Republican invention of the adjective “Democrat” have made any reference yet to Republic bills or Republic candidates. Why not? That doesn’t even have the same effect as the Republican gimmick of implying that the Democratic party is undemocratic. If suddenly hoards of Democrats started referring to Republicans as “Publicans” to imply they hang out in bars would that be cool?
When virtually everyone who uses the term is a Republican that alone should tell you that the term is simply a juvenile stunt. In a similar vein most Republicans stopped using the term “global warming” all at once a few years ago in favor of “climate change.” And of course Bush’s sending of more troops to Iraq is a “surge” as opposed to an “escalation” or “reenforcing action” or “buildup.” Words matter. Politicians know this and this deliberate “Democrat” nonsense is just sad.
No one said that usage was improper. This would have been improper-
I changed your word, see what I mean?
Actually, I do read the threads in their entirety before stinking my toes into the waters of the thread. Thanks for the advise though… (However, I am capable of making errors… hehe. Just to confuse things. :))
Lemee try again.
From OP post #1:
and OP’s post #40:
The CNN article I quoted used the word as an adjective. (“Democrats” and “top Democrat” as a word meaning a particular member of Cogress. I.E. “Democrat Congressman” with the word “Congressman” being understood and dropped out.)
So I was attempting to be on point, I thought:
That the word “Democrat” (which can also be used as a noun on it’s own, meaning “member of the Democratic Party”), is used as an adjective to define what kind of Senator we are talking about…
To which, in post #64 Pochacco says:
So, my final answer: When using the name of the Democratic Party, you say “Democratic”. When talking about something other than the party, say a piece of legislation written by a member of that party, it’s OK to say “a piece of Democrat legislation”, as the word “Democrat” is being used to modify the noun/subject word, legislation, by describing where the legislation is sourced.
In post #35 Pochacco says to uses the word “Democratic” at all times. It appears we disagree.
Does it look like I’m paying attention yet?
No, in both cases the word “Democrat” is used as a noun. Look it up in Webster’s - the word is listed as a noun, and the 2nd definition is “capitalized: a member of the Democratic party of the United States”
No. In post #35 I say “The proper ADJECTIVAL form is ‘Democratic’.”
The noun form, is, of course, “Democrat”, and the CNN passage you quoted the word is used completely correctly.
A member of the Democratic Party is a “Democrat”. When attributing an action or a thing to the Democrats, the proper adjective is “Democratic”.
The use of “Democrat” as an adjective began as a dig by Republicans, much like (as **Liberal ** pointed out) the term “fundie” is a dig against fundamentalism Christians. The implication is that the Democrats aren’t “small-d democratic”.
Here’s a nice piece in The New Yorker giving some background.
Actually the argument involves the use of the word “democrat” as a noun modifier, not an adjective, since it isn’t an adjective.
Hmmm. You make good points. I may consider wavering.
I always thought that Democratic meant “Of, or pertaining to, democracy or the democratic process”, while Democrat meant “of, or pertaining to, the Democratic Party”, which is slightly different in subject matter.
On the flip side of your name/word game point, please consider: insisting that legislation sponsored/authored by Senator Clinton be called “Democratic Legislation” also carries it’s own implications. After all, who could appose anything democratic in nature? (Get it? As in Anti-democratic? As in, authoritarian? As in the Pubbies aren’t really “small-d democratic” either.)
For example, the use of the word “Democratic” in my example here carries it’s own subtle mental manipulation, even though I am using it in the way you suggest is correct:
(When you read these examples, please “hear” them in your head. Ignore the capitalisation.)
“Today, Democrats on the Hill introduced their new Democratic Plans for Peace in Iraq.”
or
“Today, majority House leaders introduced their new Plans for Peace in Iraq.”
Notice how the first news presentation “seems more noble” than the second sentence?
(I know I left off the word “Democrat”, but I wanted to illustrate the new-speak word games we are subjected to by all kinds of interested parties and politicians… hehe.)
Are you sure?
My Dictionary, Webster’s II New Riverside University Dictionary, also says that same thing as a definition ,#4, and capitalised. But my dictionary, interestingly enough, differs, in that it lists the word (both lower and capitalised versions) as an adjective, not a noun. The non-capitalised and capitalised word “democrat” is listed as a noun…
The noun in my sentence in post #57 and #67 was Congressman, not Democrat. The word “Democrat” modifies or clarifies what type of congressman we are talking about.
For example: “He’s a Democrat Congressman.”, just like “He’s an old Congressman.”, or “He’s a Hispanic Congressman.”
In all cases, “He” and Congressman" are nouns. “Democrat”, “old”, and “Hispanic” are adjectives.
For you definition, this would be correct: “I have registered (to vote) as a Democrat.”
Ha! I just contradicted myself! Holy Moly! Ok, Ok. My dictionary has “Democrat” as a noun, your has it as an adjective, which is how I used it in my examples here. Omigosh… sigh… hehehe
Perhaps you thought that, but that’s been not the dominant usage historically and it’s not the dominant usage contemporarily. And when “Democrat” IS used that way, it’s done so almost exclusively by critics of the party.
Go to the Democratic Party’s website and read how they use the terms. Democrat is the noun. Democratic is the adjective. If anybody knows what the correct usage is, it’s the party itself.
The question is, do we change labels willy-nilly to satisfy the whims of some fringe political group? The dominant usage in this case has been consistent for nearly two centuries. The people who it refers to don’t want to change it.
If the Republicans are unhappy with the connotations they should take it up with Andrew Jackson … .
Edit
Ha! I just contradicted myself in post! Holy Moly! Ok, Ok. My dictionary has “Democrat” as a noun, your’s has it as an adjective, which is how I used it (as an adjective) in my examples here. Omigosh… sigh… hehehe
Edit
So, according to my Dictionary, I should say “Democratic Senator”. Hehe. I goofed. Please forgive me. Pretty please?
“some fringe political group”?
Urm, how about changing it to “zealous politico’s” and I’ll agree with you.
Maybe the Democrats should tell dictionary publishers that democrat (n.) can not be used as a noun modifier, contrary to every other noun in modern English?
Maybe to help this argument along, we can play a “parlor game.”
What other words are there in modern English, besides “democrat”, that can’t be used as a noun modifier – with an emphasis on those nouns that have corresponding adjectives?
Certainly not truck route, golf ball, ski lodge, Iraq War, peace talks, farm worker, etc. …
Examples?
I didn’t see if this was posted already but there was an article about this in yesterdays Washington Post. You may need to register to see it.
That was about the use of “Democrat Party” which is clearly wrong since the official name is “Democratic Party.”
This OP involves the use of the noun, democrat, as a modifier like every other noun in modern English.
Sigh. It is grammatically correct. It is also mildly insulting. I suspect that when you were criticized for using it previously it was because of the latter, not the former.
“Democratic” is the standard adjectival form. When “Democrat” is used in its place it’s often because the speaker wishes to imply that “Democrats” are not democratic. By all means, continue to use it if your intent is to be snarky and annoying. However, do not be surprised if Democrats take offense.