I think this is stellar. And I did understand you simply transposed “rouge” for “rogue”.
Is there any way you can get this statement verbatim into the inboxes of the Democratic Party? I truly encourage you to do so!
This is a baseless opinion. Sure, it’s fine to have those – I have them too. But don’t expect anyone else to accept it as anything more than a baseless opinion from an internet stranger.
We’re going to need to hire a bunch of new people to do that regardless.
100%. I think making that explicit in the statement about the plan makes it more difficult for the right-wing machine to pretend otherwise.
Really? They’ll definitely control both chambers of congress and be able to pass anything they want? You’re making waaaaaaay too many assumptions here.
I said “can”. Yes, that is an assumption, but many here are doing so. And you see, the Budget is in the hands of the House. If they cut back ICE to Biden levels, trump has two choices- veto that- and ICE has NO budget or let it go.
…it is what many people actually want. It isn’t “craven pandering” but a statement of intent.
But you don’t need ICE to do it. Just like you don’t need the Border Patrol with its racist origins to do that job either.
You could do things differently if you really wanted to. USAID got shut down in a matter of weeks. MAGA have completely reimagined how the federal government works and installed their cronies everywhere.
Because I agree with this:
It’s like abolishing ICE is just one of a number of things that will need to be addressed, rolled back, or completely overhauled. If the Dems are an actual functional responsible organisation they would have the think tanks working overtime with a gameplan and be ready to hit the ground running. “Abolish ICE” should be a bullet point followed by “this is our new border and immigration regime.” You don’t develop one without the other.
…Donald Trump didn’t win two elections because the “ruthless pragmatists” were running the ship. He won because the “crazies took over.”
The “ruthless pragmatists” were in charge of the failed Kamala Harris campaign.
Donald Trump may well be the stupidest person on the planet, and he got elected President of the United States of America twice.
The idea that there is some “magic formula” to winning the next presidential election should be well and truly dead by now. How on earth would you know if “Abolish ICE” is the path to electoral victory or not?
Absolutely the dems need a winning political strategy. But let’s not pretend that the establishment dems have anything else up their sleeves except listening to the pundits, the consultants, and the donors and not doing anything to upset them.
The way I see it, the Dems are dangerously fragmented. You can see that here in this thread. There is not going to be a meeting of the minds over “abolish ICE”. Not over trans issues. Not over universal healthcare. Not over Israel.
In the past in the establishment vs. the progressives debate, the progressives have been expected to “roll over” and “vote blue no matter who.” I don’t think thats going to happen this time. You’ve got the likes of Mamdani, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, you’ve got the DSA pushing for more candidates. You’ve got multiple poll results that show dem voters at odds with what the establishment want.
So I’m absolutely NOT going to be making any predictions about what will or what won’t work as going to be the winning strategy. I think that if a politician wants to “abolish ICE” then they should say so, and they should fight for the nomination, then they should fight to win the election.
I think we will constantly be seeing the establishment come up against progressives, and I think that it might dilute the vote, and that might give MAGA the opportunity to take the win. I hope that isn’t the case. But I don’t think that the progressives are going to back down this time.
So perhaps it’s time for the establishment to start making proper concessions this time.
If you want another dictatorial presidency which ignores the law, sure.
As I have said before, I do not have the official final text of the resolution. But here is the draft:
BlueSky post with proposed resolution
It says that "the DNC urges Democratic members of Congress to craft legislation abolishing ICE . . . "
So – they want to do it legally. That’s different from the Trump administration.
P.S. My link says that this was passed unanimously. My understanding from press reports was that there was disagreement originally but that the whole bundle of resolution was than passed by unanimous voice vote.
I think it would be hilarious if they stole a march on their opponents and published “Project 2028” with all the fixes they’re going to do.
…I’m not arguing to “ignore the law.”
I’m saying that you can do things differently if you want to. That means if you want to abolish ICE, then you abolish ICE. Some people are acting as if that’s impossible.
It’s possible. I think they could zero out funding as part of reconciliation, so it would not require ending the filibuster. And if I am wrong, I think abolishing the filibuster is itself far from impossible.
But it is probably impossible to legally abolish ICE. Of course it requires a Democratic House and Senate. That much is possible. But in order to get that Democratic House and Senate, you have to win seats in districts and states where Trump has always won. And those Democrats are unlikely to like the phrase “abolish ICE.” Compromise will be necessary.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here?
Re last post, I should have said it is legally possible but highly unlikely to get needed congressional majorities, even if the Democrats control the presidency, House and Senate in 2029. All Republicans will be against it, and there is no mechanism to obtain the needed near-total Democratic congressional support.
I think a big ICE reform would then be possible. Just by reducing the size of ICE, a portion of the lawless Trump new hires would lose their federal jobs.
IMHO, the focus should be on increasing legal immigration and amnesty for longtime residents. But I want enforcement so that we don’t have a large number of people thinking that because the Democrats are back, going through the Darien Gap and Mexican deserts to get to the U.S. is a good plan. Whether you call the enforcement side Border Patrol and/or ICE or something else is just a matter of sloganeering.
Ah, the old “many people are saying” gambit. Where have I heard that before?
What about the Senate? Don’t they have a say?
Easy peasy lemon squeezy! What could possibly go wrong?
I believe that the assumption that the Democrats will definitely control both chambers of Congress in Jan 2027 and therefore be able to start undoing Trump’s excesses, ICE and otherwise, is … wildly optimistic, let’s say.
…That’s the thing.
All of this was done without compromise.
Centers for Disease Control was decimated. Cuts to Department of Health & Human Services’ Administration for Children & Families. Removal of watchdogs to Department of Homeland Security, The Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. Cuts to science and oversight and much much more.
America’s reputation is in the toilet. They are locked in a forever war in the Middle East and offers unconditional support for a country that is causing chaos with its neighbors.
It was all done in less than a couple of years. And yet you are telling me that the Democrats can’t abolish a single law enforcement agency? That it’s probably impossible? Are you kidding me?
Because that’s the message going out to the American voters. That’s the position of the Dem establishment. How inspiring is that? MAGA can reset the baseline. Fundamentally change the role of the federal government. But “vote for us, because if we win, we will mildly push back on this.”
The reality is, and we all know it, is that MAGA have to get SMASHED in order to get an agenda of fixing any of this through. But MAGA isn’t the only barrier here; it’s the establishment (which are both never-Trump Republicans and old-school Dems) that doesn’t think something better is possible.
I argued this way back before Biden got elected but we are all (not just America) locked in a forever war with the likes of MAGA or the local equivalent who learned from Trumps first term that the rules and norms we all used to follow can be defeated if you just don’t follow them any more. In other words Trump could gun a man down and he would get away with it.
MAGA is not going to go away. There is no compromise. Because they just don’t care. And the only way you can ever defeat them is to push them back into the margins where they belong. That starts with taking the fight to them. That means no longer tolerating their bullshit. That means fighting them EVERYWHERE you can, even if you are likely to lose. You win local elections. City councils. The local sheriff. School boards.
It means showing the people you care. It means stop talking and start getting things done. You win the people at the grassroots.
You have to take control of the narrative. You need to stop letting MAGA set the agenda. You need to have an aspirational actionable plan. You’ve got to give voters something to vote for.
You’ve got brownshirts rounding up people on the streets. Brown and Black people are living in fear. Trans people are fleeing states. And if the best the dems have got is “Well, sorry, we probably won’t be able to do anything about it” then it’s over. You may as well just throw in the towel now.
Yes, the plan has to be to both win back the presidency, House, and Senate and then to never lose it to the likes of MAGA ever again. There is no other way to stop the slide to authoritarianism. They are going to keep coming back unless you push them back into the margins.
They are a bunch of freaks, weirdos, racists, supremacists, misogynists, and criminals. They are corrupt. They are stealing your money. So maybe its time to stop pretending that it’s just another Republican administration and call them what they are.
Well, yeah. That’s because the Republicans controlled the executive, both houses of the legislature and de facto the Supreme Court. And they didn’t give a shit what they broke.
That will not be the case in 2028 for the Democrats, who at best might have bare control of one or both houses of legislature. At best. But it’s the executive that holds the whip hand in the modern United States. It’s an “imperial presidency” no matter which party is in charge.
So expecting sweeping change in 2028 even if the DSA controlled every single Democratic seat in the House and Senate with a majority would be expecting too much. Like it or not it’s going to be incremental change or nothing in the near future. Best case scenario is probably dysfunctional stasis until at least 2030 simply because of how powerful the presidency is.
I’d hope for solid control across the board and some subsequent boldness as well in 2030 (assuming the Democrats don’t get blamed for the dysfunctional stasis 2028-2030, which again is probably the best case scenario). But it’s a lot easier to burn a building down than rebuild it, especially when the next administration can potentially just come through and raze the foundation again. The Republicans just have the easier strategy.
Best to temper expectations to the unpleasant reality.
…again: missing the point.
My expectations are not the problem.
What I expect to happen? The Democratic establishment is going to hold onto power. The establishment and the progressives will cause enough of a split that MAGA manages to hold onto power.
And everything gets worse.
I’ll take anything better than that as a bonus. But I don’t see that happening. My expectation is that the world is in the toilet and that things are going to get even worse. But if we want to stop it, then there really is only one way to get there. And that is to fight.
See, the Thread is Democratic party position to Abolish ICE. There is no use discussing this if the Dems have no power, if they do not win the House in November, and hopefully the presidency in 2028, now is there?
So, then there is really no point in discussing this is there? What is your point? The point of this thread is what the Dems might do if they have control of at least the House.
They need to be at least fired. Most should have to endure the same conditions they inflict on the people they “arrested.” ice as of now is full of thugs, and criminals, and rife with corruption. These people have no place having power or tax payer money. The well has been forever poisoned.
I know this is about ice but the slimes that run these torture buildings they call prisons should also pay the price for their crimes.