For security reasons. It’s entirely reasonable to document and control border crossings.
Not to the thugs targeting “internal enforcement.”
If your thought is that thought is that the 39% is, say, Cuban Americans, supporting oppression of those Mexicans (shudder) … well that overestimates the Cuban American population by roughly an order of magnitude. And even that possible cultural superiority complex is not quite the same as racism or xenophobia. Roughly 60% of American Hispanics are of Mexican heritage.
Among the broad group there is a more sophisticated understanding of “immigration” than this crowd possesses, able to separate indiscriminate brutal oppression by looks, language, and neighborhood, that Trump’s edicts have commanded, from border control.
And while there are differences in opinion on polling between Mexican and Cuban origin Americans, they actually are not so huge:
I’m not saying that there are not some people who are against immigration broadly based exclusively on racism and xenophobia. Of course there are and Trump has hired a bunch of them to give weapons to on ICE front lines. But most who have concerns about illegal immigration numbers being too high are not primarily motivated by racism, even if they are wrong or even “ignorant”.
There’s also a sizable contingent who want further immigrants to “go through the process, like my ancestors did”, never mind that the process their ancestors went through was “immigrate illegally and then wait for an amnesty”, because that’s the only process there is for Mexican workers.
Good point.
Because we (nor any nation) do not want drugs or other illegal stuff coming in, along with criminals and terrorists. No nation has open borders.
Right.
In that proud tradition, today, GOP-candidate for Florida governor Byron Donalds:
(From today’s “Face the Nation.”)
So long as right-wingers find answers such as Donalds’ to be Good, so long will those same people freak out over calls to Abolish ICE.
I’m not saying ‘don’t call for that’— but I am saying that opposition to such calls will be passionate.
Not to mention there is no such thing as an, “illegal” person. I’m pretty uncomfortable with the diretion some of your comments are going. Really, the number of undocumented imigrants in the country doesn’t bother me at all. Most of them work, pay taxes, (from which they will never benefit as far as fica goes. We as in the US has criminalized immigration and looking for safty.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting to move somewhere safer with better resources. Humans have done it for thousands of years. Fine you want borders have 'em, but don’t make it virtually impossible to live somewhere else.
And frankly all the hand wringing about illegal aliens, and “convoys” is all racism stoked by racists. I truly think that if the average American didn’t have OMG!!! the illegals are coming to steal your jobs, rape your kids, murder and pillage our idyllic, perfect country, shoved at them constantly by fox news et al, they wouldn’t give a much of a shit about immigration.
Yep - lies, damn lies, and Statistics. Good luck with that…
Most of whom are doing necessary work, and no harm.
I strongly suspect that some of them just find it a useful weapon to terrify the poorly informed with.
Yeah. Whether or not there’s a racial component (often there is, sometimes there isn’t) it’s xenophobia that’s being used as the weapon. Scare some people enough, and you can sell them anything.
So it’s possible to screen for infectious disease, violent criminals including but not limited to actual terrorists, and traffickers of humans and/or of illegal materials.
(I recommend doing different things about the infected than about the criminal. But it is a good idea to check.)
And for people bringing in, intentionally or otherwise, invasive or infectious plant material, endangered species, etc.
Exactly - ignorance is definitely one of the major drivers of opposition to immigration.
True.
I think there’s a difference between wanting regulation and a degree of control over the immigration process and just being outright hateful toward immigrants because they are typically not white people.
Those aren’t at all the same thing, but some around here seem to want to paint any opponent of unfettered immigration as racists, or so it seems.
Not even close. That is not even what is being argued here- what is being argued is what should the democratic party do about ICE when it gets the power to do so. Shall ICE be “abolished” or “restructured and cut back”?
ICE and the Border patrol do a needed job is deporting criminals and keeping criminals, terrorist and drug smugglers out.
No Dem leader wants “open borders”- that is a ridiculous MAGA term like “defund the Police”.
trump has changed U.S. immigration rules through hundreds of bogus executive actions, including mass deportations, many humanitarian restrictions, and cutting legal pathways.
The Trump administration is implementing widespread restrictions on legal immigration, affecting U.S. citizens sponsoring family, employers, and various visa categories like Diversity Visas and refugees. Led by White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, these policies include application freezes, a stricter public charge rule and changes affecting DACA recipients. Analysts from the National Foundation for American Policy project a 33% to 50% reduction in legal immigration, totaling 1.5 to 2.4 million people, by the end of Trump’s term. This is expected to harm the economy, including a potential labor loss of 19 million worker years by 2028 and a $1.9 trillion reduction in goods and services. Several lawsuits are challenging the measures.
In other words, the current administration is working against LEGAL immigration also.
Lump of labour fallacy. Jobs don’t work like that.
The term originated to rebut the idea that reducing the number of hours employees are allowed to labour during the working day would lead to a reduction in unemployment. The term is also commonly used to describe the false belief that increasing labour productivity, automation, immigration, or women’s participation in the workforce causes an increase in unemployment. The facts show that just like the amount of labor is not fixed, neither is the size of the economy (fixed pie fallacy) and as more work is done, the economy grows.
The fools involved are bigots, they just assumed the white nationalists used the same system of bigotry they do. They thought the neo- Nazis would only go after the “bad” brown people they hate, not them.
And so the leopards ate their faces, much to their surprise.
Solely because they believe the country is losing its whiteness. There’s a term for that.
I don’t think that’s true, but rather is the result of an excluded middle. The pro-ICE position, and unfettered immigration, aren’t the only possible positions. It’s very possible to want some regulation on immigration and not be racist; but I don’t think there are well-supported non-racist reasons to be pro-ICE.
If you think “some around here seem to want to paint any opponent of unfettered immigration as racists,” it would be helpful for you to be specific. Quote the statements that you’re paraphrasing in this manner, and let the folks you’re quoting either confirm or deny that it’s an accurate paraphrase.
Pro - how ICE has been used by this current administration, no. Pro - ICE? I am and have given my reasons for it, which I at least believe are well supported and not racist.
So difference of opinion there I guess.
Now they want NO immigration-
All US immigrant visa applications have been paused by the Trump administration as the state department moves to tighten restrictions and limit access to applicants who they deem could end up relying on US assistance, a state department official confirmed Tuesday.
His next trick will be covering the Statue of Liberty inscription with a tarp.
I think the thing is that few are against the idea of immigration and customs enforcement. That’s a normal and necessary thing for nations that restrict immigration and that have customs laws in place.
But it’s also not unreasonable to be against the actual institution of United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or “ICE”. That institution is tasked with the concept that I mentioned above, but has been turned into a political terror and enforcement arm in this term.
So unless I’m misreading, you’re for the mission, but not necessarily for the institution as it currently exists and behaves.
Well, yeah. Cut back it’s budget (to Biden era levels), making it lay off all the new hires, fire all the trump appointees, and then reorganize and rename. It can then do what it did under Obama and Biden.
Well, it’s certainly based on bullshit, since it is absolutely not true that “millions” of illegal immigrants enter “year after year”. There has probably never even been a single year when as many as one million people entered illegally. There are about 14 million undocumented immigrants in the US, and most of them have been here more than ten years, so do the math.
So WHY are people falling for this bullshit about illegal immigration being some kind of huge crisis? Could it be…Racism? I certainly can’t think of any other plausible explanation.