You wonder if politicians in a society where Nazis had been bombed into submission spent as much time worrying as politicians in a society where the Nazis are currently in power? Why would you wonder that?
You believe that centrists REJECT the idea of “replacing ICE”? If you have a poll or similar evidence that leads you to believe that, I hope you’ll share it.
An honest question, not a gotcha. We’ve had more than sufficient evidence that theoretically required certification and training has not been done for many/most of the 2025+ hires. Even if part of the reason is that Executive has zero interest in making them aware and responsible for their risks, then should they not be eligible for firing for not meeting the minimal written standards for their job? That would not be a political reason, though the reason they never GOT the training was certainly one!
If required certification and training has not been done that is unfortunately on the people that did not provide the required certification procedures and training. Which is to say management - which is presumably what the election will try to address.
However as a former civil servant I’d be a bigger hypocrite than usual if I called for the mass firing of civil service-protected employees based on their shitty management not doing their job. Remove them from the field and train them properly. Re-assign them to desk jobs. Investigate and selectively fire those individuals that have manifestly violated laws and procedures that were in place and they were aware of (there would probably be many that could be fired for that). Selectively lay off as the law allows with budget cuts if no other position can be found for them.
But tit for tat indiscriminate mass firings because people are calling for blood? Nope, can’t support that. If Democrats are going to argue they’re the better party, be the better party.
For that matter, we don’t even need to fire them. If the agency they work for has a reduction in force down to 0 workers, by virtue of ceasing to exist, then they would all be laid off.
How about “Accountibilty for ICE”? Even a lot of Dems still think deporting criminals is a legit goal, if it’s done with oversight.
I think that, if voters see a message like “replace ICE” or “accountability for ICE”, what they’ll take from that is “Democrats don’t actually have a problem with armies of goons on the streets; they just want them to be their armies of goons”. And when I say “voters”, there, I mean as a whole, not just Democratic primary voters.
We want to abolish ICE. Most of the country wants to abolish ICE. So let’s just say, “Abolish ICE”.
According to the poll, 48 percent “somewhat or strongly support” abolishing ICE.
I think that “strongly support” mean they really want to abolish ICE, and somewhat means they want a strong reform but do not quite like the word abolish.
But what I cannot find is a breakdown of the somewhat and strong percentages.
I understand that we don’t want to punish people that are not at fault, but the challenge is that we added 12k personnel to serve functions that we want to eliminate. The pre-2025 org was 7.5k personnel; it’s not a small amount of extra people.
And you refuted it. You need to back your assertion up as well. A simple, “Nuh Uh!” won’t do.
The aggregate data is linked here:
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_ESdiNMa.pdf#page=51
Page 51 should have that item.
The reason I searched it out was because I was curious what the sizes of the 3 voter groups were. For this question, they are roughly equal:
545, 606, 451
The question that matters for the elections are what do Dems + Independents think
And, by contrast, what the current administration did with valuable employees from the government was that an appalling 260,000 workers left federal service due to Trump administration initiatives in 2025.
I shouldn’t have to explain this, but there’s a large group of voters called “independents”.
Winning over hese “independents” is considered by those in the know as important for electoral victory.
Surveys vary, but in one recent poll 35% of independents expressing an opinion supported abolishing ICE, with 45% opposed.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply @Tamerlane. True, blanket firing would be unfair. But your solution keeps us in a moral and legally sound position, and as you said, is likely to lead to actionable adherence/compliance requirements going forward.
Note - I hope that nothing I said or asked about indicated I felt this should be done as retribution, just my feelings that those committing the sins at both the top and bottom should be held responsible, and rebuild/replace without their influence as much as legally possible.
Aside - at the last couple of No King’s protests, I’ve seen the term/slogan ICEbreaker used frequently, along with the “Melt the ICE” from upthread. I personally liked the phrase “It’s time to end this ICE age!”
I very much disagree. Disapproving of ICE doesn’t mean wanting to abolish it. The same as disapproving of crooked police doesn’t mean getting rid of the police department. Many moderate Dems still want foreign criminals deported. People want an organization to do what ICE should be doing.
There are lots of federal law enforcement that can rid us of “foreign criminals”. There is only one that throws teargas in neighborhoods while kids are waiting for their school busses.
The ICE resolutions adopted yesterday are still not on the DNC web site, even though the decision made at the same meeting as to which states go first in 2028 Democratic presidential primaries is:
Meaningless, as the resolutions will be posted in a day or two? Maybe, but it is consistent with this from Mediate:
Since I cannot find the full final text of the abolish ICE resolution, I cannot say whether I am for or against it. By itself, Abolish ICE is a slogan rather than a policy.
Also, I still do not understand why they are passing policy resolutions that could conflict with results of the normal every-four-years process of adopting a platform.
Agreed! But the messaging has to appeal to the most people.
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Are you a Democrat? Do you feel that “Defund the Police” is an effective slogan for Democrats to rally behind? Then I have some exciting news for you!
We here at the DNC want to double number of the crowd-pleasing catch-phrases so now we’ve officially added “Abolish ICE” to our arsenal!
Keep the great ideas coming! If you have any particularly winning ideas post them here!
I like “Eliminate the Navy” but “Crush Freedom” is more succinct and gets down to the meat-and-potatoes issues that attract Independent votes.
The post above is entirely made up of snark and thus completely lacks any possible convincinvg power. It just demonstrates the speaker holds the discussion in contempt.
I do not know why people do it, as all that happens is that people who disagree become more emotionally attached to their original position.