The court is not as friendly to “secret lists” as you seem to think. As has been said multiple times: fix the problems with the list and then let’s talk about using it to abridge the rights of Americans.
Why? If we commit to doing both, what’s the big deal? Did anyone lately get gunned down by a cancelled airline reservation?
Trends always move towards more freedom, not less. The gun debate has been no exception. The 60s and 70s were the high water mark for gun controllers. It’s been downhill ever since, with the exception of a few pieces of legislation enacted in response to periods of high emotion. They might even get something passed now. But forget gun ownership, concealed carry is being liberalized all over the country. The gun controllers are losing the war.
As for the Supreme Court decision you criticized, all Heller does is prevent total gun bans like the handgun bans some states had. There has never been a time in this country when gun ownership wasn’t a basic right in practice, whether or not it was recognized by the courts. The government can control certain classes of weapons, but the right to own a firearm of some sort is ironclad if you’re a law abiding citizen.
Well, OK, then. Certainly settles that!
I told you how to fix the list. It will work, and is the only way to do it.
The list is a sideshow, anyway. No matter how many times you try to move it into the main tent it won’t take.
How so?
When your idea, or something else, gets passed thru Congress that’s when it will be fixed. It’s nice that you told us how to fix it, now all you have to do is convince Congress to follow your plan!
You’ll have to take that up with the OP, or start your own thread:
Just sitting here trying to remember all the firm and resolute statements made by our political leaders in opposition to the dreadful “taking away” of rights by the “no fly” list. Offhand, can’t seem to recall any.
Of course, my memory isn’t what it used to be. Or maybe it is, and I just don’t remember.
Can I be forgiven for mentioning once again that the last 2 big Islamic jihad inspired shootings were not done by people on a terror watchlist?
I don’t think pointing to facts is going to sway the folks in this thread who are convinced this is a good idea. But it’s worth mentioning again, IMHO and FWIW…
To be fair, I’m not 100% certain that rights were not taken away, but if I had to bet, I’d so none. Which one or ones do you think were taken away?
Sure seems the 4th amendment is being gutted. No?
My views have evolved.
Seriously, I was lazy and based it on what I had just read. Because, as I’ve said repeatedly, I considered that aspect of the issue so thoroughly minor and meaningless it never occurred to me that anyone thought it was the important piece. (Besides, Trump came out for it and that was too good a burn to let lie.)
After reading through this thread I am more convinced of that than ever.
If the no-fly zone were the issue, then the Republicans would have allowed the bill to come to the floor, trashed the Democrats on the rights issue, and voted the bill down. They did no such thing. Why? Because there were more than one bill (or amendments to various bills) that covered different restrictions, because most of them actually wanted some of these restrictions, because the public heavily wants some of these restrictions, and because the NRA wants nothing to be done.
Somewhat amazingly, I’m saying that the House Republicans have a far better read on the political reality of the issue than the voices here. And, of course, so do the Democrats. That’s the point I will continue to make.
I don’t know. Tell us why you think it is.
Just to be clear, I don’t think the government SHOULD have the ability to limit your travel based on being on a secret list, but that’s not the same thing as whether or not our present government does have that authority. The 4ht is about unreasonable search and seizure. Not seeing a search or a seizure here.
I might have mistook your answer to elucidator as a comment to the more general “are we losing/gaining losing rights”. If thats actually the case then the Monday Supreme Court decision is yet another one of the many exceptions that have been carved out of the 4th. If I was mistaken, I don’t have any position on what rights are taken away by the no-fly list.
The right to travel internationally as recognized byKent v. Dulles.
This was identified in the lawsuit that the ACLU won in district court, and has continued to push through the process as the remedies offered by the government have not been sufficient.
Due process, which is impacting rights to travel and to reputation. And, if this scheme were to go forward, 2nd amendment rights to go along with those pesky 5th.
Don’t forget equal protection, since we know that the No Fly List is basically a compilation of Muslims, Arabs, and South Asians who someone “saw something, and said something” about.
All good stuff. Wonder if John might form an opinion now.
More people voted for Democrats in the last election than Republicans. The Republicans manipulated the district lines to dilute the Democratic vote. Gerrymandering is the epitome of obstructionism.