Huh?
Q="When was the last time that treasuries were paying 4%?"
A=In 2007 or 2008.
Ah, I see. Somehow, due to spellchecker or something, your post got altered when I quoted it. Interesting. Sorry.
Yes, more like 0.03%. That’s $3K from a buy in of $10M. I am sure iiiandiiii can live large off that.
I am sorry and do not mean to be rude, but your grasp of the way investments, particularly how bonds work, makes it very hard to take you seriously.
You just laid out a scenario that COULD happen (albeit at about 2.5% not 4%) but is FAR from certain (i.e. rising interest rates). In 10 years you could lose most of that 10 million. That is the very definition of risk and one you seem to so casually toss aside as not relevant when in fact it is the single most important facet of the discussion.
Now I am not sure about you, but even a minimal risk to lose a LARGE portion of my 10 million is FAR more risky than the fact that I might lose my job and have to look for another.
Compare post #251 with your quote of me in post #255. Do you see the difference? It’s not a big deal, I’m more curious as to how it happened.
Ninja’d. I saw your clarification. No problem.
nm.
Post 186 was clear, thanks. I agree, when you trade time for money there is not risk in the same way there is risk when you trade use of capital for a delayed return.
Unless I’m misunderstanding how treasury bonds work, when it matures in 10 years (for a 10 year bond) you get back the initial cost. And you get 4% (or less, now, I suppose) of the initial value each year. That’s no risk, whatever inflation is (barring a calamity, like the total collapse of the dollar into trash).
Maybe I just misunderstand how bonds work. If so, I’ll do some more reading.
You are, and you’re misunderstanding investments in general.
According to this link, I’m right about bonds – you get the coupon percentage every year, and you get the initial value back at maturity.
But if you’re getting 4% interest, and inflation is 5%, you’re losing money. The same thing applies to the principal in that bond. $10,000 ten years from now is worth LESS than the $10,000 you invested.
All investments have risk, which you seem not to understand.
I know all investments have risk, but the risk for some is near-zero. T-bonds, and perhaps even to a greater extent T-bills, have near-zero risk. The chances of long-term high interest rates are low, and even if it happens, you just lost some value – you can’t lose your principal (or the income). That’s a very, very low risk.
Have you ever heard of the time value of money? If you invest $10,000 and get that same $10,000 back ten years later, it’s no longer worth $10,000.
Obviously, but you had the coupon income for 10 years, and you know exactly how many dollars you’re getting back. Very, very low risk.
Not if inflation exceeds the coupon rate.
And again, if you have to sell the bond, to finance current expenses in your retirement, you could very, very well face a loss on your investment.
For a retiree with fixed expenses and insurance, these are extremely low risks.
Fixed expenses, who has those, and where do I sign up?
Heat, electricity, food, and gasoline, to name just a few, are all variable. Even those that are fixed in the short term, such as rent, cable, or even yard waste stickers, tend to go up every year.
I’m not sure what insurance has to do with the equation, though. 
We’ve probably gone as far as we’re going to go. I think the risk (for T-bonds and T-bills) is really, really low, and (I presume) you think it’s still low but not quite as low as I do.
"Really (even really, really) low, is not risk-free, which was your claim, on multiple occasions.
I would still like to know what you are referring to as “fixed expenses”, or did you mean fixed income?
I said ‘for all intents and purposes’ it was risk-free, or negligible-risk. You think I’m underestimating the risk, I think you’re overestimating the risk. We got it.
I meant fixed income. The coupon income is part of the fixed income, and that income won’t change – so unless the retiree drastically changes his/her lifestyle, there’s (virtually) no risk for a T-bond/T-bill to his/her future.
The larger point is that while it’s very difficult to get rich, it’s very easy to stay rich, if one’s chief goal is to maintain their wealth (rather than grow it).
That’s not what you said in posts 212, 228, or 233.
You said risk-free. No such investment exists.