The Republicans have lost their mind

Sweet fuckity fuck. So just to refresh everyone, under the financially prudent Bush tax cuts the capital gains tax was lowered to 15% percent. What does this mean? It means anyone who primarily derives their income from wages (and that includes a lot of people making 6 figures too) pays a least double the tax rate of the richest Americans who primarily derive their income from stock, hedge funds, and the like.

Apparently not satisfied with this royal fucking of average American taxpayers, the moron wing of the GOP is now trying to lower the capital gains tax further as a part the bail-out package. According to these blatant thieves, lowering the capital gains tax will somehow encourage more investment in the shaken markets. Because, you know, people wouldn’t invest their money otherwise.:rolleyes: I mean, seriously, do these jackasses think the American public is this stupid? Or is it just that these ass fucks are so besotted by uber-capitalism and dumb ass libertarian ideals that they are in effect trying to exacerbate unbridled greed, which is what got us into this mess in the first place. Honestly, I almost pissed myself when I head this plan. What a stupid fucking moronic idea and proof of how little the GOP cares for anyone but their corporate paymasters and ignorant fucking religious zealots.

Not only do they want to lower the capital gains tax, they also want to throw in some more deregulation-- because that ALWAYS works. Meanwhile WaMu bites the dust. . …

The only proposed cuts to capital gains taxes that I am aware of are restricted to investments in the current pool of illiquid troubled housing backed securities.

An obviously functioning, liquid market which is posing no particular danger to the economy right now and have no trouble attracting capital. :rolleyes:

Read up a bit on current events before you post again.

The American public elected Bush twice, so I would say not only do they think we’re that stupid, they’re probably right.

As far as I can tell from talking to my coworkers, they are way too preoccupied with the terror that two guys might be kissing each other somewhere than they are with anything related to the economy.

So, you’ve heard about the proposed capital gains tax cut too? I mean, the further capital gains tax cuts as opposed to the capital gains tax cut that already happened?

What the fuck is THAT supposed to mean? The OP did read up on the conservative’s new proposal that, get this, calls for more motherfucking capital gains tax cuts. Which you acknowledge in the first part of your own post.

By the way, MichaelQReilly, threemae has answered your question on just how stupid these “conservatives” think we Americans are. Because nothing says fiscal conservative like spending more and taking in less.

One of the first things we learn in an economics class, yes there are classes, you should try taking one, is that lowering or getting rid of the capital gains tax encourages investment. Not by you and I, mind you, but by the people who invest to make lots of money anyways. So, no capital gains tax and the stock market soars. Doesn’t seem too bad to me. Ask an economist, they are all for it.

Perhaps there is a 12 step program for Republicans everywhere. What is one of their creeds? Ah, yes:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I have come to the conclusion that Reps in power have some kind of mental astigmatism. These people are not stupid by any means. That may be the most pathetic part of all of this.

Let me also point out, for those of you still thinking the little man is getting screwed, that this increase in investment will generally causing a lowering of the interest rate. This will generally slow down inflation. The positive ramifications of the stock market going up, as a plus, aside, you can’t tell me lower interest rates and less inflation is a bad thing.

Yeah, that’s what I learned in econ class too. However there was no automatic assumption that the professionally rich would necessarily ‘invest American’. Or the little guys either, trying to protect their nest eggs. Freeing up a bunch of cash doesn’t mean it will end up where theorists want it. After several decades of spectacularly mishandled US corporate giants going belly-up, not to mention out-and-out fraud, how much confidence should investors have? Of course trust has eroded. Better believe a chunk of my side retirement fund is invested overseas, and probably more to follow, as recommended by my investment guru–a professional economist, btw.

This has been tried already. It’s called ‘trickle down’ and, as we have seen recently, the only thing trickling down are foreclosures and banks. How many times are we going to go to the same stupid-assed well before we realize that this shit does not fucking work. Especially when these supposed extra investments are going into an even MORE deregulated market that will not or cannot oversee itself.

Insanity, like eleanor said. But keep it up, I can’t wait to see what it’ll be like with all of my possessions in a back of a pick-up travelling the countryside looking for $50 an hour lettuce to pick in my Joad-mobile.

So, the previously unacceptably high rate on those is what killed investment? Shit, you’d better call Paulson and let him know. I think he might be operating on some incorrect info!

-Joe

One of the things we learn in more advanced economics classes (yes, there are advanced economics classes, but I’m not sure whether you should try taking one since the lessons would appear to be totally lost on you) is that the stock market is not a proper index for measuring economic output. Another thing we learn is that investment bubbles (whether they’re stocks, bonds, or real estate markets) aren’t good because they represent an overestimate of the actual value of assets. Another thing we learn is that encouraging more investment could potentially backfire if it feeds these bubbles, which are just bits of paper chasing other bits of paper, instead of creating new value in quality goods and services. Another thing we learn is that economists differ in opinion, that they are not “all for it”, and that in fact some economists favor higher capital gains taxes because there is no great marginal loss to be expected from a rate increase considering the very low present rates, especially when compared to income taxes.

Considering the fact that the current financial crisis is potentially deflationary (maybe a history of economics class is in order for you, so that you can read up on the Great Depression), then yes, we can in fact say that less inflation is potentially a bad thing.

They’ve lost it entirely? Dear god, they only had the one! See, here is where a few backup minds would have come in handy.

Well, since some econ 101 prof. told you this let me withdraw my statement. :rolleyes: Seriously, I’ve heard this argument over and over and its bullshit. Warren Buffet himself, one of the most brilliant investors in the history of this country, says its bullshit. My firm does a lot of work with high end wealth managers, believe me, the money will go somewhere, whether its real estate, municipal bonds, t-bills, cd’s, whatever. People with a lot of money need to put it somewhere.

And honestly, do you really still believe this trickle down crap? Hasn’t a decade of pretty solid growth that nonetheless saw the middle-class’s inflation adjusted salary decline and the current financial mess which will be borne by the taxpayers convinced anyone with half a brain that trickle down economics is a complete load of shit?

Prime’s already at 2%. Are you suggesting it’ll go negative?

Well, Arthur Laffer is, anyway.

Karl Rove was keeping under his desk in a jar, and just consulting with it once in a while to figure out how he could best use it for his own political and financial gains. When he resigned he snuck it out in a coffee can. It now resides in his entertainment room where it is used to remove commercials from the daytime soap operas that Rove has become addicted to.

Stranger

Actually, one of the first things we learn in Econ 101 is that buying stocks is not economic investment.

Dude, you know that you’d need to be making > $100K before your total effective tax rate is even close to 30%, right?

Try this page: http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm, then come back.

I was just about to say that.

If the current administration has one problem, subscribing to libertarian ideals isn’t it. That would suggest that they’d actually be trying to reduce their spending, rather than doing whatever they want and charging it to their credit card.

This.

This persistent myth that capital gains taxes must be low for the economy to grow is ridiculous. What the hell do you think wealthy people will do with their money to avoid capital gains tax? Stuff it in a mattress?

No, they’ll buy things, invest in things, maybe put some in a bank, whatever. It’s all economic activity, and it’s all beneficial.

Anyway, returning to what Rysto said, buying stock doesn’t magically increase the size of the economy. You’re buying it from somebody else. Buying IPO stock is economic investment. Buying previously marketed shares, on the other hand, is no different than sticking your money in an interest bearing account.