Good catch! I must have been thinking about 2005 numbers!
No, I just looked at the top 10 list that I first posted incorrectly.
Yeah, but while influential, Madison’s words don’t have any legal force. The government, in fact, does undo otherwise legal contracts. Go look up the term unconscionable contract.
All of you people whining “It’s not the fault of the AIG employees who are getting bonuses that the company went to hell” are at best woefully misguided. Is it the fault of the 100k plus being laid off for each of past several months that the economy has gone in the shitter? Yet the same conservaties who are suddenly all weepy for the AIG employees who make 6 six figue incomes would line up to tell all the laid off people that they should have gotten recession proof jobs (cough…Rand Rover) and deny them expanded unemployment benefits (Bobby Jindal). I can’t think of a better example of the complete and total bankrupcy of current conservative ideology than this farce.
I was being flip, but yeah, that’s my feeling too.
I heard on NPR that the bonuses causing all of this hub-bub amount to less than 1/1000 of the total money given to AIG.
This is why I hate the government. They make an ill-informed decision to give a company money. The company spends the money within the agreed upon terms, and now the government is wasting tons of time and tax payer money, debating over 1/1000 of the money given. It would make more sense to me to say “we fucked up, lets move forward and work on the other REAL problems that still exists instead of holding hearings and all this other grandstanding bullshit”.
Point is, it happened. Fuck it. It is a small blip on the radar of the other enormous problems that still exists. Lets move on.
Oh, and I tend to agree that you don’t fuck someone backdoor on a contract.
Nothing conservative about it. It is socialism for the rich & keynesianism. A proper conservative response to AIG (& all the rest) begging for money would have been to tell it to go fuck itself. Companies unable to turn a profit should go bankrupt, not be kept artificially alive. Using taxpayer money to prop up failed companies is not conservative ideology. And especially when it is done by mortgaging future generations by taking gigantic loans overseas.
I agree with atboczkowski. I think most of these bonuses in general are obscene, and we really need an economic restructuring that removes whatever condition it is that causes them. But this outrage is misplaced and also counterproductive.
The government has already sunk well in excess of $100B into AIG. These actions over bonuses make it more likely that AIG will not survive, or at least require more future bailout money than otherwise, which will cause an enormous loss of taxpayer money that exceeds the bonus money by several orders of magnitude.
[Also, I’m not completely clear on this point, but if the bonuses were in fact retention money then it’s not fair to point out that they wouldn’t be paid if not for the bailout. If not for the promise of this money, many of these people would have left AIG and be working elsewhere by this time. They gave up something of value (the opportunity to find work elsewhere) in exchange for the promise of a bonus.]
The thinking is not that they are propping up a company, but propping up the economy itself. If you accept that premise ,it crosses political lines and ideologies.
Well put.
I work for a Hedge Fund that did slightly better than the industry average last year and as such we have had redundancies, a pay freeze and an empty bonus pool. Those on retention bonuses (now there’s an oxymoron for you…) have waived them. It makes not a jot of difference that I worked exceptionally hard last year or that my work helped to save (I am not a trader myself) the firm a lot of money. I joined a company I do not work for myself and when the company does badly we have all done badly.
It might be small in the overall context, but $165 million is still a lot of money to most folks who aren’t CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, and that’s about 99% of us. I don’t think the anger is simply a lack of context, but that the other 999/1000 is necessary for the stability of our financial system (so we’re told) and the 1/1000 is wasted on people who caused this problem
I agree with JohnT, when someone fucks up on your team, all the players pay for it. The middle managers, the ones making “only” $125000 may not have had much of a hand in this catastrophe, but they were part of a company that is basically bankrupt without these public funds. All AIG should be getting is enough to keep them afloat and stay in business. No extra frills or luxuries should be handed out because essentially, these are bankrupt companies
The heading is incorrect – a lot of Repubs voted for the bill, too. It was bipartisan.
I am also sure it amounts to a bill of attainder. Will be found unconstitutional if passed. I’m sure every last lawyer who was consulted told the congressmen so. They had to know. The bill is just showmanship, in short.
I meant conservative as regarding the current conservative movement in American politics, not classical conservatism, perhaps I should have made that clear.
Well yeah, I had noticed that too.
Apparently deceptive thread titles are one of those IOKIYAAR things.
I agree, in almost all circumstances. But the choice we face as taxpayers is thankfully more open-ended than “we’re fucked” or “let’s use tax money to pay failed companies’ bonuses.” We can adopt more reasonable positions, like, “You wouldn’t even have a salary if we weren’t covering your ass, we’re not paying fucking bonuses.” This is not some random raping of contract law.
There are plenty of legal experts out there of the opinion that it is probably legal. Laurence Tribe for example. That doiesn’t necessarily mean it is legal, but it isn’t a situation where it is clearly illegal, as you suggest.
Hurricane in a tea kettle…and it will be amusing in a sad and scary sort of way when this sort of political grandstanding and incited popularist backlash takes down what’s left of AIG…and then the people wonder what happened to the 99.9% of our investment in AIG and why it went down the toilet.
I’ll just sit back and watch the furor over this…and wait to see what the excuses are going to be when the whole things goes tits up. Now, where did I put my survival rations and guns again…?
-XT
I would agree with that if it was stated before we gave them the money that they could not pay anyone a bonus. Point is…it happened. Make sure it doesnt happen again, but in general move on. The bonus money is a drop in the bucket in the big picture. Meanwhile we are paying members of congress to beat this dead horse to a pulp, instead of focusing on moving forward.
True, this isn’t “moving forward.” Justice rarely is. It’s a way to stop slipping backwards.
That was basically Obama’s opinion on the last budget bill. Sure, it had lots of porkie ear marks, but they passed it anyway, as a necessary evil. And there was a whole lot more wasted money in that bill than in the AIG bonuses.
One of the great things about this whole issue is that it is forcing Republican leaders to walk a tightrope. Three quarters of Americans think that the government recovering the bonus money is a good thing: Outraged Americans Want AIG Bonus Money Recovered
But the Republican politicians also have to respond to the small minority of their constituents and nutjobs in the right wing media who are mindlessly pro-wealthy people. They end up in a pretty contorted position, and it can only make their poor showing in opinion polls about Republicans in congress worse.
Go Rush! Go Sam Stone!