I’ve been sarcastically calling for them to do this, didn’t think they were actually dumb enough to do it. When has this ever worked out for them? They’ve got Trump on the ropes, the public hates him, midterns with unpopular Presidents never go well for the ruling party, and so Democrats choose to make the election about guns? When defending a lot of red state Senate seats? Wow.
Whistle all you want, boys, but you’re still walking in the graveyard. The public supports the dreamers, the public supports background checks. We’ll likely have another 5-10 school massacres between now and the midterms. Gun nuts always vote 100% Republican, we’re not going to lose their votes. The difference is now those who tire of the carnage are energized. Many of those high school students who are leading the charge are going to be voting this fall. Any guesses on how they vote?
I know! Perfect issues for Republicans and their Russian friends to strawman them on.
Really, the Democrats should adopt the same tactics: “Republicans oppose gun control efforts that would reduce school shootings, want to deport children who have lived their whole lives in the US to violent third-world countries they have no knowledge of, and are keen on cutting funding to CHIP which will result in thousands of poor children dying or suffering hardship. Why do so many GOP policies seem to result in dead children?”
On guns, the intensity is all with the gun owners. On immigration the issues are more complicated. In both cases, it’s a low priority issue for those who vote Democrat and high priority issues for those who vote Republican. Focusing on guns and immigration is a great way to reduce Democratic turnout and motivate Republican turnout.
But is it what Democrats are actually prioritizing? Or is it what Republicans are saying that Democrats are prioritizing, in the same way that in 2016 the GOP were all about “Look, the Democrats only care about minorities and transgendered people, not about working class jobs!” when the Democrats actually had working class jobs at the top of their agenda?
I posted this on reddit a couple of days ago, but it applies here:
The Republicans are praying that you make the 2018 election about gun control. They’re a disaster right now - Mueller is breathing down their necks and it’s going to be revealed that not only is Trump obviously a traitor, but that they were far more complicit than most people think.
What can save them? Gun control can save them. You guys don’t understand how powerful an issue this is. There is no stronger single issue voters than on this issue. Yes, I know, you think that’s insane - doesn’t matter, it’s the reality of it. There are a lot of people who are not on board with Trump, who are not on board with Russia controlling us, who could be swayed by what comes of the Mueller investigation - until you create the message that “the democrats are coming for our guns!” - and you just lost them.
If you make this election about what it is - a referrendum on Trump’s treason, the GOP’s treason, and their insanity, it’s an obvious winner. If you make the 2018 about gun control, you give the GOP their dream scenario - so many people you could’ve won over now are deadset against you. The Republican base is invigorated, pro-gun democrats (and there are a shitload more than you think) are alienated, and you distract people from the real issue.
Guns don’t pose an existential threat to our democracy. We’ve managed to get this far with them everywhere. And gun violence is trending down, it’s not like there’s a sudden crisis that needs to be handled. But this treasonous batch of GOP currently in control of the country - the ones that are reinforcing their voter suppression, gerrymandering, and stacking of the judiciary - who put their own power above all else - realistically do constitute an existential threat to our democracy. If they maintain power for another few years, we may have lost our ability to save our country.
You gave Trump the presidency by running the only candidate that he could possibly beat. Sure, maybe the reason people hated Hillary was wrong or misguided, but that was the reality. Whether it was “right” to run Hillary or not, ideologically, it was the only scenario where we could’ve ended up in the disaster we’re currently in.
You’re about to make that same mistake again. The GOP’s dream is that you make 2018 about gun control. They couldn’t ask for a better scenario. Are you willing to give them another electoral win and squander this historic opportunity to unite the country in opposition to the treason the GOP is committing?
The democratic party in the US must be the only political party in the world who could snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory like this.
If it must be pushed as an issue, the time to bring it up is after the election. It is a huge losing proposition to make 2018 about gun control. The worst thing the democrats can do.
Guns may, perhaps, not pose an existential threat to your democracy, at this moment.
But that’s got to be weighed against the perception that they DO pose a very real existential threat to your family. Any member. Any time. Any where. Your children aren’t safe in school, in church, at a concert, etc, etc.
(Never forget folks, whenever people are trying to scare you, they ARE trying to manipulate you.)
Nobody is going to vote Republican because of gun control who wouldn’t do it anyway, and didn’t in 2016. There is no closet vote that the Democrats risk coming out on that issue. There is no downside to being on the right side on this one.
Sometimes parties follow the people, cautiously, instead of vice versa. Same sex marriage is another example. The people are already trying to drag the Democrats along on gun control, the Republicans being a hopeless cause.
I don’t know what this means. Are you calling me a concern troll? Because I think my anti-republican cred on this board is established as can be.
You are absolutely 100% wrong on this. “Gun nuts” to you are some fantasy that you can unload every negative trait you can. You don’t actually understand them. And you’d be surprised just how many there are. It’s not nearly as clear cut a left-right issue as you think it is. There are a lot of democratic and left-leaning independents who are very passionate about the gun issue. People that could very well be alienated to stay home on election day, even if they won’t vote Republican.
And there’s not a 100% overlap between right-wing gun nuts and Trump cultists, either. Those cultist voters - the ones that watch Fox News all day and have no attachment to reality will vote reliably Republican, but they only make up about 30% of the US. There are still people over there that give a shit about this country and aren’t on board with the GOP selling out our country to an adversary. Which is why the 2018 election needs to be about that. Even if you can’t swing voters, you can make people stay home because they refuse to support what’s going on with the GOP.
But “they’re coming for our guns!” changes all that. You will find no more alienating issue, no issue on which people are willing to dig in against you, than gun control.
This is Hillary all over again, you’ve learned nothing. You decided that people were wrong not to like Hillary and you tried to shove it down their throat to give them their medicine and teach them what’s good for them. And it gave us Donald Fucking Trump.
Now you want to try to push gun control at the worst possible time, and fuck anyone it alienates, because you know what’s best and they’re going to take their medicine, and you’re going to reward Republicans win an electoral win during the year it’s proven they’re fucking traitors.
A mass shooting every year or two isn’t going to end this country. Telling the Republicans that their dysfunctional, corrupt, traitorous ways are not only acceptable but will be rewarded and empowered very well may. They’re ramping up the voter suppression, making us defenseless against foreign interference, gerrymandering, and stacking the judiciary. This literally may be the only chance we have to save our country before they entrench themselves and make themselves immune from democracy.
And you want to fucking waste this opportunity, this existential threat to our democracy, on fucking gun control.
Edit: And I can’t believe I have to point out something so obvious, but if you have an issue that you want to legislate, but you know it’s an issue that loses you voters, then get elected first, and then go for it. Why in the world would you want to make it an election issue when it no doubt is going to make it more likely that you lose the election? Shut up about it until then and then spring it on everyone once you win the election. I still think it would be stupid - there are bigger fish to fry like protecting our elections and fixing our health care system, that using political capital for gun control instead of these things is an awful idea, but for fucks sake, win the elections first.
The question is not whether gu-grabbers or people who want sane gun control are more energized. The question is whose energy level is most subject to change. So far as I can tell, the gun-grabbers are permanently energized and permanently Republican (at least, at the presidential level), and nothing anyone does will change that. The folks who want sane gun control, though, are currently disenheartened, but could be energized by actual action.
I know this could seem snarky, but I’m genuinely baffled: you say guns pose a very real existential threat to my family — adding that my kid isn’t safe at school or at church or at a concert — and you instantly follow it up by saying that, whenever people are trying to scare me, they ARE trying to manipulate me?
Were you just now trying to scare me? And, therefore, trying to manipulate me? Whereupon you — felt the need to stop and explain what you’re doing?
I honestly don’t get why you’d slap that bit on at the end, there.
I’m baffled by this attitude. You sound straight out of 2014.
Do you not understand that Trump changes everything? The special elections in areas that are historically republican are flipping.
Are you seriously suggesting that the left’s base is not motivated to go out and vote because Trump is a traitor who is deliberately trying to damage this country, a buffoon that’s destroying our reputation on the world stage? They’re just going to sit home and let the Republicans keep hold of everything, unless you coax them out with gun control? That’s ridiculous.
So, too, is the idea that every potential Republican vote is a Trump cultists that can’t be swayed by anything. I grant that 30% of voters are absolutely in that category, but you don’t win elections with 30% of voters. There are a lot of people on the right who cannot stand Trump and can’t support the current GOP in good conscience.
People that voted for Trump in 2016 did so for various reasons - a lot of them were doing it because they were sure Hillary would win and this was their way of protest voting, a lot of them thought Trump actually was some sort of genius businessman who could lead this country and all it takes is 2 years of complete bumbling to dissaude them of that notion. Most people had no idea about the Russian connections, and by the 2018 elections they most certainly will. A lot of the votes that were there for Trump in 2016 would not be there today.
So you make the 2018 election about Trump. Especially since Mueller is going to be devastating the Republicans by the time of the elections.
If you’re a Republican political operative, you’re praying that the democrats are stupid enough to make the 2018 election about gun control instead of Trump. It’s the only thing that could potentially save you. It would absolutely energize the right - no longer would they be asking “can I really vote for the party of Trump?” and instead they’d be thinking “oh shit, this is it, the Democrats are coming for our guns!”
The left is as energized as it has been for decades. They don’t need gun control for extra motivation. There are a lot of pro-gun democrats who are comfortable being democrats because democrats haven’t seriously touched the issue in a long time - you will lose them. You gain nothing, you alienate part of your base, and you energize the Republicans and make this election so much simpler for them.
I have no idea how you guys can’t see what a fucking catastrophe in the making this is. The Republicans will be ecstatic if you successfully make this an election issue.
Democrats can use the issue of guns, but not by accepting the term “Gun Control”. Control is a word that lends itself to the idea of a “Big Government” gathering data on everybody’s guns and making unilateral decisions who gets guns and who doesn’t–in other words, the citizen doesn’t have a say. As long as the dialogue is about Control, I tend to agree with Senor Beef.
But if it can be changed to "reasonable gun regulation, then maybe. After all, regulated appears in the Second Amendment, right along with the word infringed. And most people understand that some things need to be regulated, like water quality, amount of lead in products, asbestos in buildings, et. al., for the general welfare (more words from the Constitution) of the people of the United States.
Can they change the terms of the discussion? Don’t know. But as long as the word ‘control’ is there, I can’t see the sides changing much.
I agree with this. The Dems should run on: 1) Middle class economics (jobs, wages, healthcare) and 2) Not being the fucked up party.
Republicans have learned how to win despite being on the wrong end of everything (history, public opinion). I’m afraid the Dems still haven’t learned how to win despite (largely) being on the right side of things. There’s nothing wrong with organizing around issues, but to base an entire campaign strategy around a single issue, especially one like guns, especially when you’re trying to pick up red states and districts, is a suicide mission.
STOP lunging yourselves after the hot issue of the day (LGBTQ, immigration) and just work on getting back those blue collar and middle class voters you lost to Donald Fucking Trump already. Win, then legislate. It’s the economy, stupid. A shitton of voters in Very Important States[sup]TM[/sup] feel like they can’t catch a break financially-- white ones, LGBTQ ones, black ones, Latino ones, immigrant ones, male ones, female ones, gun-owning ones, gun-hating ones. GO AFTER THEIR VOTES!! THIS IS NOT HOW TO DO THAT!
Every one? No. Just a lack of regard for human life, even though that’s bad enough.
Possibly. Got any numbers? How do they compare to the number of people who’ve fucking had enough?
(A) We were right, as experience shows, and (B) What the hell else should we have done?
No. It’s the best possible time, when there is no longer any excuse for inaction. Unless you’re saying there is never a good time to do something that many would find inconvenient.
It’s every *day *or two, and yes, it *is *killing who we are. If you don’t want the problem addressed, just say so. If you have another idea of how to lead us out of this mess, please provide it.
You started this post by complaining about strawmanning. It doesn’t help you to do it yourself, even if you’re generally right about it.
Absolutely not. I want to help end the killings that really do constitute a threat to our democracy as well as our lives. I absolutely do not want to make excuses for not doing it, or allow them from others. What matters more than human life?