But all I see are clouds…
Allen conceding at his own pace and without being pressured to by dumbasses like Schumer is exactly the sort of thing which helps eliminate potential dispute over the election. This is a totally positive thing and good for the election and the Democratic victory. There’s no downside to it, and I’m glad he conceded.
Oh, and you can keep on trying to start a fight all you want - sounds like a good way to treat someone on your same side at a time when we should be celebrating. Good luck with all that; I won’t be reading your posts any further on this message board.
Wow, you’re more irritable than I am today.
I vaguely recall reading a statement from some high-level Democratic Committe group or whatever Tuesday evening along the lines of “While we believe Schumer has won, we support counting every vote to ensure the outcome of the race is accurate.”
I’ll try to dig up a cite, but if the media didn’t disseminate that, it’s hardly the Democrats’ fault…
Did anyone else on the planet feel Allen was being unduly pressured or victimized somehow by Schumer doing a little gloating? I mean, seriously, at worst he was taking a risk-free shot at Allen’s statements re. the Gore recount. Maybe it was a little bad form, but come on. Nobody ever hurt Allen more than Allen, and he obviously came to his concession independent of anything Schumer said. I’d call it serious pressure if such pressure could actually be applied, but I simply fail to see the significance of Schumer’s statements.
Remember the Republicans and their chant of “Sore Looser [sic]” when Gore lost a closer, more important, and more questionable election? Were you one of them, Una? I bet you were.
A lot of folks have changed their minds, Walt. A good thing, in my estimation.
Out of curiosity — I honestly don’t know the answer here, and this is not a “gotcha!” question — what did the Republicans do about the allegations of vote fraud in 2000 and 2004?
I mean, are you asking the Democrats and the Usual Suspects to do something you wouldn’t ask your own party to do?
Ah, jeez…
Una, I’m sorry!
I mean it. Sincerely. I’ve been in a shitty fucking mood for a while now, and heaven only knows how or if I’m taking it out on others these days. Seriously, I really am sorry, and am tired myself of being so irritable and sarcastic. I did find your perceived vehemence earlier to be a bit befuddling, as I thought the debate was fairly level-headed, but it was petty of me to take a cheap shot afterward, and there’s simply no excusing it. So, again, hand-on-heart, unreservedly, and with complete sincerity, I apologize for my nasty behavior, I will do my best to be more civil in the future, to you and others, and I will certainly try to be more mindful of my own moods when posting. I neither expect nor require an acknowledgement of this statement, and only hope you haven’t put me on “ignore” so you can see it.
And on that note, I’m going to go home and kiss my wife and do what I should have done before, which is get the fuck away from the keyboard until I’ve remembered some semblance of manners.
Whoa there, bucko. I don’t recall anyone ever claiming there was “systematic vote rigging”. Hell, not even the Republicans would be that stupid. However, there were many cases of votes conveniently going the way of the Pubs, like that district where more people voted Republican than there were voters.
A much more believable situation would be a bunch of individuals doing their best to rig individual ballots… which would fit exactly what we saw.
Of course it’s different. Democrats won. I didn’t see the Republicans saying, in the 2004 election, “Hey, something’s not right here- let’s do some recounts, and make sure we didn’t win by cheating.” No, they just blocked the Democrat’s recounts as much as they possibly could.
If the Republicans think they were cheated this time around, they’re perfectly free to demand recounts, just as the Democrats will be perfectly justified in calling them hypocrites if they do so (since it was claimed, by the Pubs, that the only reason the Dems previously wanted a recount was because they lost).
At first blush, it appears that, at least in this latest election, there were a lot more instances of Democrat votes conveniently being cast as Republican, rather than the other way around. This would STILL indicate that the Republicans have a penchant for trying to manipulate the vote illegally. Now, this could be selective reporting by The Liberal Media… or, it could be that Republicans are more likely to try to cheat.
Either way, it behooves us to make the election process as foolproof as possible, don’t you agree? Or are you just trying to stir up shit, as usual?
Either way, why do you want to
Hmm… not quite sure where that last sentence fragment came from. I blame Nader.
Nader! * Nader!!* Slowly, I turned. Step by step…
I assume you mean Allen…and that’s good. I believe you speak the truth, so you need not find a cite.
What’s your damage? I’m not saying anything offensive so now you want to make up things for me to have said (which I never did)? Is that what this has turned into now?
elucidator - I not only thought that Gore should have his recount, but somewhere long ago I’m sure I posted about being in France during that month (it was when I met Fierra for the first time) where I defended Gore and the recount process when my French clients were mocking the election here. I felt like Gore needed a fair shake. Where I have changed my mind is that I do support the Democratic party being in control of Congress. I’d think that would in some respects put me on the same side as good people such as yourself.
Loopydude, let’s both of us chill and make up, OK? This is supposed to be a great day, a day of change and hopefully for the better. There’s no need for the disputing we’ve been doing here. Can we agree on those points?
Well done, the both of you. Golf claps.
We can, and we do.
He’s an ass, make sure every vote counts and they are counted right. He is partisan hack and has lost all credibility in my book.
Obviously the Democrats couldn’t cheat using electronic voting machines. They are rosy cheeked cherubs all, wanting to heed the call of the people. Nary a single such foul idea has ever crossed their mind.
The Dems don’t cheat with eVoting machines…everyone knows that. They cheat with the old fashion kind, with ballot box stuffing and having the dead vote. 
-XT
Well, if there is something to investigate in VA, it’s unlikely the findings would have helped Allen.
If the Democrats were victims of fraudulent election practices in 2006, it wasn’t enough to make the difference. If there was fraud against the Dems, but they won anyway, yeah, they should still protest, but how would they know they needed to? Seriously, think about it. Considering the process is already so shady, shrouded in mystery, and shamefully inexact, and the mockery, derision, and outright resistance that ensues when people call for recounts and fraud investigations, why would a person who won an election put him or herself through it?
Answer: No sane person would. That’s why Shodan’s claims are so outrageously silly in this thread. Under the most compelling circumstances, investigations like the one he wants the Dems to demand come to naught, yet if they don’t demand one in 2006, they are hypocrites and all talk of fraud in 2004 is invalid. Talk about your unrealistic standards to set, yet set them he does… for other people.
Sure, when you win, you are more willing to say, eh, fuck it, let sleeping dogs lie. Even with a presidency at stake, neither Gore nor Kerry was able to hack through the red tape for a meaningful election fraud investigation. Why would Dems hack through it now? Would you, in their place, Shodan? Would Tom DeLay? After not being believed in 2000 and 2004, why would anyone invest the time and energy now, having one?
People like Shodan guarantee such efforts will be a waste of time, and then disingenuously wonder why no one makes the effort. It’s pretty funny, actually, the way everything can be spun to support your partisan agenda. But it’s an atttiude that is bad for America. Allegations of voter fraud should be taken seriously and exhaustive investigated as the threats to our democracy they are, not turned into partisan bullshit. Both parties should back such investigations 100% regardless of who the fraud might favor. But no, it doesn’t exist, and everyone should shut up about. Excellent.
Whenever you stop whining, that’s when I will. OK, I’ll exhale now.