While you are correct sir, you have not proven that cannot and does not happen.
Respectfully,
Jim
Jim, where do I begin? First, with the basic premise of debates based on logic. Since you assert that this does happen, it is incumbent on you to prove that it does happen. You can claim that the particles are spherical (a good guess), diamond-shaped (probably less-likely), or muffin-shaped (not bloody likely) but until you begin
- Stating facts
- citing the sources of your facts
- stringing together these facts with logical statements (and not just logicky-sounding words!)
and - defening a single position rather than jim-jamming all the hell over the place when contravened,
you are not actually participating in a Great Debate.
Second, you should really take the time to read the previous posts. There’s a poster on this thread who has been more-or-less against you for the whole thread, even though it’s pretty clear that he actually supports your side of the argument. He didn’t say it right out loud, but if you read carefully, he has been taking a point counter to yours solely because your position was so weak. If you’re really interested in the truth, then perhaps you should learn the basic form of discourse here – a modified version of BBCode – so you can do things like create external links. I bet that if you took the time to back up your argument with links, a few of your detractors might admit they were wrong and come over to your side of the argument, furthering the search for truth.
For example, you could try posting a link, however biased, that supports your position. If you were really interested, you could link to something a little more unbiased. You could even point to multiple sources.
I have a feeling, though, that you’re going to continue getting yourself backed into dead ends when attacked with basic logic, and then retreating behind the Bart Simpson classic comeback, “you can’t prove anything.” That’s not a debate. That’s like hiding under a bridge and yelling up at passersby, then retreating to a cave when they yell back.
If you get my drift.
Now that was pretty cool. I don’t mind criticisim, for the right reason in the correct manner. I am the type of person that has been taught thru his work, that this government and its control hurts many hard working Americans and that it says one thuing and does another constantly. I wish that were not true, but I have been taught it is.
I have even come to see that many doctors wil;l sell their souls for money and I think that is as sad as it gets. I know I present radical ideas, but I also learn from those ideas and hope others do as well. While aslot that I say can be wrong, I will at least make you put on your thinking caps. Is that so bad? If you had watched, when I was speaking on another thread and a person by the name of Mahatten came on, he detailed so much and he did it in a non confrontational way, that I knew he was right and said so, ending all the fight in me. That is what I seek, not another web site that can be manipulated by this corrupt government, but by a real person, that can help me to learn. I don’t want to be enemies with you or anyone else, but Bart is always on my shoulder. LOL, Peace. I will at least make you put your thinking cap on.
Sorry, my derision cap is in the way.
Of course not. However, it often appears as if you are not putting on your own thinking cap, and that is what people are complaining about (re: your apparent lack of interest in citing any of your information).
So simply being detailed and non-confrontational makes someone right? You’ll forgive me if I don’t take such a lax position on how to separate what is right from what is not.
Do you seriously think that the government has the means to alter people’s websites without causing an immediate uproar? Do you honestly think that the government has so much power that they could put a complete blackout on any random piece of information they want? If the government decided to censor a website that I had, I’d immediately contact all of my local news organizations, as well as ranting about it here on this message board. In your eyes, is the government powerful enough to immediately suppress all of my local news stations and papers, as well as removing my posts from this message board? If not, then it is not feasible for the government to manipulate websites in any manner that would result in the suppression of information.
And that completely ignores websites based outside of the US. I’d love to see how the government is supposed to manipulate websites based in other countries.
The thing is, without actual cites to reputable (or even not-so-reputable) sources, most people here aren’t going to bother. Claims about things that are, by their nature, hard facts, without anything to support those claims but personal conjecture or second-hand information from unspecified sources, are not taken very seriously in the Great Debates forum. If that’s going to be your style, you might have better luck in the MPSIMS Forum.
I have seen your pettiness in the words you use. I have seen the confrontation, with respect to no one. You say nothing of the problems that confront the veterans that may suffer from these hard objects that enter their bodies thru their lungs and may cause death and things that can be much worse. I also see no respect for anyone, not even yourself. You are a lost soul indeed.
That you do not understand all that was said, is enough to be understood by everyone, that has common sense and a mind of their own, is evidenced in the words you use.
Yes, I know this government uses the control it has at every moment, in an effort to control and abuse the power bestowed upon it by the good people of this country. Yes, this countries leasdership is as a spoiled child that will do things as it wants, simpl;y, because it can. What good is control, if one does not use oit to their advantage. That is what control is all about. Poor baby, do you really think anyone cares about someone like you that cares not to see how this goveermnment abuses so many, even unto the death of millions? Yes, this governmewnt can so easily control and supress anything it wants and if you are not smart enough to understand that, you should see a doctor.
NITE NITE little one.
And that completely ignores websites based outside of the US. I’d love to see how the government is supposed to manipulate websites based in other countries.
The thing is, without actual cites to reputable (or even not-so-reputable) sources, most people here aren’t going to bother. Claims about things that are, by their nature, hard facts, without anything to support those claims but personal conjecture or second-hand information from unspecified sources, are not taken very seriously in the Great Debates forum. If that’s going to be your style, you might have better luck in the MPSIMS Forum.
[/QUOTE]
And you have yet to show that these hard objects are indeed a problem at all, so I fail to see your point. If I came in here claiming that the soldiers were suffering because of a voodoo curse, would you not ask me to show that that was actually the case?
So, basically, asking you to offer a single shred of evidence for your claims equates to a lack of respect for myself? Give me a break.
So when you said “he detailed so much and he did it in a non confrontational way, that I knew he was right”, you didn’t actually mean that you knew he was right because he was detailed and non-confrontational in his response? Pray tell, then, what other interpretation could that sentence have?
Are you saying that, if you had the power to erase every negative comment about you from every website on the planet, that you would do so? If you would not, then why should any other entity?
The government won’t let me see a doctor. Every time I try, the men in black helicopters stop me and force me to go back home. If I even so much as ask a medical question on a message board, a special ops team bursts through the door, guns blazing, and riddles my computer full of holes. I think they might be using depleted uranium ammunition, which makes me need to see a doctor even more. It’s a vicious cycle, I tell ya’.
I’m going to meet you halfway: all I want is for you to post a link.
One. Link.
If you can just post a link, ANY LINK AT ALL, even to Google, to show that you’re a sentient being, I’ll concede that you’ve defeated me out of sheer tenacity. I will admit to wearing Depleted Uranium Ben-Wa Balls at night, or dressing up as Hitler in vinyl lingerie, or whatever you want. Ceramic metals, Illuminati horses, 1920’s style Death Rays controlling my thoughts… seriously, just name it. I’ll surrender. But only on the condition that you link to something. A page that says “I win” or “You lose” or “Half off on Tuesdays” or “Bush is Satan” or “Shodan Rules!” or whatever. Any valid link at all, and I’ll concede defeat.
If you do not manage to post a link using the URL function of this website by the third page, I’m going to assume that you’re just doing this to get a rise out of us, or that you’re an ELIZA program that has been very cunningly programmed to imitate a fifteen-year-old message board lurker getting his jollies from being deliberately obtuse. At that point, there’s only one thing left to do, and that’s starve you out.
LOL,LOL,LOL, NOPE, NOT EVEN ONE LINK, especially not even for the sake of winning an arguement. HEHE
My understanding is that DU-tipped projectiles are specifically designed for penetrating hardened targets, specifically tanks, although the OP apparently thinks that everything from tomahawks to bayonets are DU-coated.
Anyway, when a DU “bullet” cuts through the armor of a tank, the kinetic energy is converted very rapidly into heat, resulting in an intensly hot plasma of molten Uranium.
Granted, uranium dust is evolved which may not be good to breath, and I still don’t get the whole “microscopic cuts/burning bush” thing, but my point is, as you would be instantly calcined, the inhalation risks seem pretty trivial to me.
I can just see the tank commander:
“Incoming!!! everybody, hold your breath!!”
I see that you have, by default, lost your argument.
This is like the debate-equivalent of a monday-morning quarterback. Yeah, tell us an idea. Yeah, tell us about how good it is, how right it is, how if only it were considered, how right it would turn out to be.
Yeah, you’ve got the answer, you’ve got the winning play.
But until you put up, you’re just blowing hot air.
Until then, I declare your idea false. Goodnight.
BoyScout, you know that Jurph has even done the research for you, right? See his post near the top of this second page. Maybe you could just cut and paste his links.
And I think we’re being a bit generous with the estimate of 15 years.
Depleted uranium weapons are hazardous to the environment as the cite provided by Jurph shows.
http://www.miltoxproj.org/assesment.htm
Although the mechanisms are more mundane than the boyscout envisions, Uranium through its decay to lead and polonium through repeated alpha decay is a leading cause of death (non smoking related lung cancer) in the US. Barely cracks the top 10, but a significant hazard to health without the added insult of deliberately causing it to form a long lived aerosol.
envisioning an additional 3000 to 21000 cancer deaths to our own troops is sufficient to ban the nasty devices.
Yes, many here have helped, in many different ways and I would like to say thank you to everyone. Yes, I am wrong about many things, but if I learn just one new thing, it was worth it.
Maybe you have noticed that my screen name starts out with boy. That is because I am always searching for more information and people that look for things in a like manner. Too many people look at youth as an underling. I see them as untainted and refreshing, in so many ways and even if an 18 year old that works for a living, crosses my path in the course of their job, they deserve respect and the title sir or mam, as long as the respect is returned. When you call them mam or sir, look them in the eyes and look away, lest you taint the respect given, for they will come to see it as making fun of them if your eyes stay on them. The reason being, is that they will stand a little taller and there will be a gleam in their eye. They may not see, hear and feel it at the moment as a disrespect, but they will after, if they think you are manipulating them, just to see these things. If done correctly, you need not see these things, for you will hear it and they will take better care of you, black, white or yellow.
Someone here asked why I use the term --LOL so much. The truth is, usually, I am being attacked and LOL typed in front of me, helps me to calm a bit, so that I better control what I am doing and thinking.
I am used to being attacked on a consistant basis for my thoughts and many of my thoughts are out there in differing degrees, but they are my thoughts and only by putting them at risk, do I become smarter, but something to add, I do not do what I do, just for myself, even though many will say so. This thread is about soldiers, harmed in the many ways. This is just one way to help doctors to see other effects they may not have seen, because they are looking at the other aspects so hard. As we all think back, we may see that there is nothing solid in the blood system, except for plaque and we all know what plaque does, so why did none of us think of that right away? DOH! It is the same with doctors. Most of the time, they are dealing with so many other things, the simplest of things eludes them.
Actually, the more people that attack me, the more I concentrate and focus on the slightest of details and in turn, I come to read people like a book. I can see your consistant attitudes. I can see what has influenced you and why. These pages will lay anyone bare, given enough time and enough subject matter. I purposely do not remember your screen names, except for the ones that really stand out and then, why they stand out. I still approach each person, as they approach me, at that moment. To remember names and hold grudges only hurts each of us, but hey, we are all petty to a degree and it takes much to shed that pettiness, jelousy and fear.
With respect,
Jim
No. It isn’t.
Untainted by experience, education and maturity can be rather un-refreshing.
Shouldn’t this tell you something?
No. It isn’t.
Then you should seriously (I’m not kidding) consider going to medical school so that you can affect change from within.
You’re trying, and for that I sort of repect you. But you may want to consider listening a little more.
This ain’t the Academy Awards, and this is not the part where you get up on the podium and make your “concession” speech.
Yes! You are wrong about many things. And if you would learn just one new thing, it would almost be worth it.
Because all Boys are always searching for more information… and people that look… for things… in a like manner. Like boys do.
Nope. I read the words in the order you placed them, and they just don’t parse.
I look at youth as many many underlings, because youth isn’t just one person.
Respect is earned. No, correction: respect may be earned.
This is absolutely beautiful advice. Take it to In My Humble Opinion or put a sock in it.
koom ba YAAAAH my Lord, koom ba YAAAAAAAAH… :rolleyes:
That’s nice. If it helps control what you’re thinking, then I urge you to keep it up.
I haven’t yet attacked you for your thoughts. Well, okay, since you pretty much forfeited the idea of this being a debate up above, I’ve decided to dig into you a little bit more. This is Great Debates. You’re being attacked because when you show up to Great Debates with a proposition – any proposition – someone will attack you. That’s what this forum is for.
You’re not putting anything at risk. You have yet to engage any person here in anything resembling a debate. Sure, your proposition has been blown into bits that make chihuahua poop look tiny, but from what I’ve seen, you’re not even paying attention!
Oh, I’ll get back to this one.
Not anymore it isn’t.
Unless you print this out and hand it to them, there aren’t any doctors who are going to read this for anything other than the sheer entertainment of watching you pelted with fruit.
No, most of the time they’re using their brains and considering the evidence before them, or working their asses off to save lives. The “simplest of things” usually only appears so in hindsight.
What? No, really – on which details did you focus? When? Anywhere in this forum, or any other forum. What are you talking about?
What I like to do is to give this forum the courtesy of an engaging debate, addressing each person’s arguments in turn and by name, instead of treating them all like nameless cattle. You keep talking about respect, but you’re not even trying here. Put forth some effort.
As for reading me like a book, well… if your reading comprehension skills are what I think they are, then we probably agree that you don’t actually know anything about me.
Yeah, when I come into the office each day, I pretty much call my boss whatever name pops into my head at the moment. Today it was Steve. Tomorrow it might be Jackass. Then I’ll probably go back to calling him “Steve” for a while. Like so many other things you’ve said, this is total bullshit.
Again: put a sock in it. We’re not here to blow sunshine up your ass, or to have sunshine blown up our own. If I want that, I’ll go submit my poetry to a non-confrontational workshop. And you know what? My poetry will still suck.
This is Great Debates. If you’re not going to enter into a debate, then your ideas won’t ever be changed. You won’t learn anything new. You’ll just blather on and on and on. Remember how I said I’d get back to your claim that you’re not doing this for yourself? If you’re not going to even read the other comments here, then all you’re doing is masturbating. And believe me, it’s not doing anything for us. So I sure as hell hope it’s doing something for you.
You didn’t show even a little respect, Steve, so why sign off like that?
I don’t know why I’m bothering.
But let’s break this down a little. BoyScout11, if we can break your argument down into parts this is what we might see:
-
Many soldiers and civilians from the Gulf War are suffering from physical problems.
-
Those problems are linked to exposure to depleted uranium weapons.
-
Depleted uranium munitions form microscopic sharp particles under certain conditions.
-
Those conditions were present on the battlefield when the DU weapons were used.
-
Microscopic sharp particles can enter the blood stream and cause microscopic cuts and tears in tissue.
Therefore:
Soldiers and civilians are becoming sick because they were exposed to DU weapons and inhaled microscopic sharp particles, which are causing microscopic cuts and tears throughout their bodies.
But you have not established even one of your premises. We aren’t sure that Gulf war vets are getting sick more than one might expect, we haven’t demonstrated that exposure to DU causes sickness in anyone, we haven’t demonstrated that DU will form razor sharp microscopic particles under certain conditions, we haven’t demonstrated that those conditions were present during the Gulf War, we haven’t demonstrated that microscopic sharp particles cause cuts and tears in tissue, and we haven’t demonstrated that microscopic cuts and tears cause illness.
In order for us to be cold-hearted bastards ignoring the plight of sick and injured soldiers we would first have to be convinced of your first premise. And even if we find that there are more sick soldiers than one would expect in a similar population we would still need to be convinced that it was DU instead of (say) nerve gas, or anthrax vaccines, or MREs, or oil well fire particulates, or some unknown virus, or secret government experimentation.
sniff sniff*
Damn, the stench of a military wannabee can be smelled two boards away.
You must have forgotten to take your happy pill today.
My, my, your a fiesty bunch today, all just a ray of sunshine. Why don’t you boys go on down the way and just not answer to what I write, or is it that you like to try to berate anyone, that’s not part of the incrowd.
When I write things that are out there, I’m sure I could search the web for all the info I want, but then, I wouldn’t have much to discuss, nor would I need anyone else. That’s no fun, I’d rather watch guys like you foam at the mouth and lose sleep. LOL