Depleted Uranium

[Milton_De_La_Warre]

Check my comments on DU under the thread on “Different Bullets”.

The M1 tank uses DU as a component of its classified its armor as well as in the sabot “silver bullet” ammunition. It works uncommonly well in both applications. No M1 tanks were destroyed by enemy action during the late war. However, as one person rightly points out, this is at least partially due to a whomping-ass superiority in fire control systems: we shot better every time, usually from twice as far away as they could shoot. This is possible in flat, open country such as the Iraqi and Kuwati deserts. We had the better gun, the better ammunition, the better aiming system, the best circumstances to shoot them under, and we often caught them by surprise.

As I said in the other posting, the main hazard associated with DU is in the heavy metal posioning. As I said there, I’ve worked with it and have nothing wrong with me (as a result of that, anyway). We worried about beryllium posioning from the brakes much more.

I would bet that all the burnt Kuwaiti oil wells didn’t do any good for those who had to breathe all the smoke. After all, crude oil right out of the tap has everything nasty in it. It’s where we get plastics, industrial solvents, and a host of other goodies. The zealous and generous use of a lot of the disease preventatives and various anti-desert bug sprays probably weren’t especially healthful, either.

However, having said all of that I am of the very slightly qualified opinion that Gulf War Syndrome is probably likely at least in part the result of low to moderate level exposure to Iraqi chemical weapons, principally nerve gases. You all may wish to take the time to read about cases where workers were accidentally, negligently, or otherwise exposed to very low levels of nerve gases; the early 80’s book “A Higher Form of Killing” has one or two cases, for instance. The symptoms are strikingly similar to GWS. YOu will also recall that for years the government here denied there was any exposure of our folks over there to chem weapons, then “60 Minutes” showed them where their pants were down by revealing how we hurridely blew up an Iraqi munitions depot known to be stocked to the rafters with nerve and mustard gas weapons. The existence and use of Iraqi chem armed scuds was also denied, but after the ceasefire, we heard all about the inspectors having trouble accounting for such weapons. I suppose fuzing for optimal dispersal of chem agents would be a big problem with Saddam’s chemical scud program, but if you can get the warhead contents dispersed above the target zone by having it intercepted by a Patriot missle, then the problem is solved to some extent. Close enough for a semi-psychotic dictator, anyway. We know it takes very little nerve agent to produce a fatal outcome; it also appears that a very small fraction of that amount can possibly produce long-term nervous system debilitation. I don’t believe there have been many studies in this regard, so evidence appears more circumstantial rather than definitive.

The fact is, we don’t know for sure. What’s worse is that we may not to want to know. It would sure take the bloom off the rose if we were to discover that our nearly bloodless victory was something quite the opposite.

[CurtC]

Here’s some suggested reading for you:

http://www.fumento.com/biggulf.html

http://www.fumento.com/phony.html

A quote from the second article says:

So what we’re being told is that exposure so slight that nobody even knew about it at the time is now causing terrible, widespread harm. We are also told there’s no scientific evidence one way or another as to whether this is possible. WRONG. The Persian Gulf Illnesses Investigation Team, the same Department of Defense-appointed group that first posted the news about Khamisiyah on the Internet, has also released a “Report on Possible Effects of Organophosphate ‘Low-Level’ Nerve Agent Exposure.”

Sarin gas is an organophosphate. The report states clearly on page one: “The concept of low-agent exposure is not realistic. These are highly volatile substances and disappear quickly.”

Furthermore, it says, “It is hard to imagine an open-air situation in which low concentrations would not disappear to zero levels within moments.”

Not days, not hours, but moments. Thus the odds of even the 37th Engineers receiving a low-level dose of sarin is virtually nil.

As for those other 15,000 or 100,000, were it possible for something to be less than nil, then that would describe their exposure.

he report then surveys the scientific literature on nerve-gas exposure. Among these was a test on over 1,400 subjects exposed to a range of gas from low symptom-less doses to those that caused immediate illness. A National Academy of Sciences panel concluded there were no long-term effects for any of the subjects.

Another report, on 297 cases of accidental exposure among workers manufacturing nerve agents, found that about a fifth initially had symptoms but that all “eventually returned to work fully functional.”

The investigation team notes the improbability of “illnesses from very low levels of exposures in the presence of overwhelming evidence that those illnesses do not occur with high and longer levels of exposure. This would be incompatible with empirical science and the principles of biology and pharmacology.”

It concludes that low-level nerve gas exposure “cannot be reasonably advanced as having a role in Gulf War illnesses.”

[Diceman]

Call me a conspiracy nut if you want, but I don’t think a study run by the DoD is impartial and unbias. Remember, they screwed up by letting that nerve gas dump get bombed in the first place. As for the “exposure so slight that nobody even knew about it at the time”, my Weapons of War book is at my parents’ house, but I remember a section on chemical weapons. There are several nerve agents where the threshold of detectability is above the threshold of toxicity. What this means is that you’ll be dead (or at least gravely ill) before you smell anything. Non-lethal doses of these agents would have no smell at all.

[Chas.E]

**

However, having said all of that I am of the very slightly qualified opinion that Gulf War Syndrome is probably likely at least in part the result of low to moderate level exposure to Iraqi chemical weapons, principally nerve gases.

**

And of course, it has nothing whatsoever to do with soldiers using tons of pesticides on themselves to ward off desert insects like sand fleas. I know one veteran who told me about how they wore flea collars. Those suckers have DDVP in them, its definitely NOT approved for human use. There are also reports of adverse reactions to overuse of common insect repellents used in the Gulf like NNDMT, even in civilian populations. Nah, that couldn’t possibly be it.
My local veterans hospital announced today that they have completed a multi-year research project, they found symptoms matching “Gulf War Syndrome” in vets who never went anywhere near the Gulf War. It should hit all the national papers tomorrow. Look for it.

It is common knowledge that entering the Armed Services is going to lower your life expectancy. You’re more likely to get killed, not just by the enemy, but also by hanging around all that dangerous equipment. If people can’t deal with it, they shouldn’t join up.

[Diceman]

Personally, I’m beginning to think that Gulf War Syndrome is a catch-all term for any number of illnesses brought on by all the Really Bad Stuff ™ that was in the Persian Gulf at the time. Look at all of the suspected causes. You have dust from depleted uranium shells. You have severe pollution thanks to Saddam “the Pyro” Hussein. You have possible exposure to nerve gas. You have heavy use of really strong pesticides. You have Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome, AKA shell shock. All of these things are quite unhealthy, and GWS could be any of them, or a combination of them. Is it possible that Gulf War Syndrome is acutally several war-related illnesses that are being lumped together?