:: Yawn, stretch ::
Huh? Oh, yeah…the old Limbaugh bromide.
For the umpteenth time: I DO NOT LISTEN TO RUSH LIMBAUGH!!!
Ahem…or Bill O’Reilly, Shawn Hannity, et. al. I’m my own good little Republican self and have been for decades before anyone ever heard of these guys.
Or one could read the threads and posts on the Straight Dope.
Man, oh, man, hendo…you’ve been ginding away on that lengthy glurge ever since my first post, haven’t you. It’s telling that my humble words have inspired you to such lengthy reams of denial.
Given the obvious dishonest slant of this little gem (unless of course you can illustrate just where it was I suggested math, science and engineering should be the only types of courses taught). Frankly, I anticipated this silly argument and started to include some of the courses you cited, but then I decided that it didn’t really matter as the subjects mentioned weren’t really germane to the thrust of my post, and secondly, I decided you wouldn’t really be so stupid as to seize upon my mention of only three out all the courses available on your typical college campus and attempt to pretend it meant anything significant.
I was wrong.
So, given that this sterling little bit of dishonesty came flying out of you so early in that manifesto you so outragedly composed, I opted to decline reading the remainder as surely there would be little factual point.
You’ll pardon me, I’m sure.
And now, given that I don’t have all night to tilt at the windmills of lefticism like I sometimes do, I’ll have to leave you stew in your own juices.
Good night.
Speaking as the very embodiment and incarnation of common sense, I can tell you that common sense favors the plain over the elaborate. That advanced education fosters political liberalism doesn’t require a conspiracy to explain, unless you find the bald facts distasteful. Its like you imagine that educated youth when naturally be inclined to your world view as they become more educated and aware unless some malign force was operating.
Reminds me of crap I heard as a kid, about how everything would be fine if it weren’t for those Northern agitators coming down to Texas, getting the colored folks all riled up. Why, hell, that’s just plain common sense!
He had a record, but I don’t recall reading that he had any mental issues (though he obviously does.) When they picked him up, they were able to hold him on parole violation, so it took months before he got charged (but since the cops weren’t looking any more, we figured that he was the one.)
Now the Afghan guy who ran over people did have mental problems, but that’s a totally different case, and maybe the one you’re thinking of.
As one who, aside from noting the general error of your opinions, has no serious objection to your posts, let me point out that you are the one who is being dishonest, here.
In a rant against those terrible “liberal” schools, you made a point of talking about schools avoiding “indoctrination” and then deliberately selected only courses that would tend to be apolitical. That the liberal arts of history, philosophy, sociology, economics, or political science could be taught in some neutral, (or, more likely, for you, neutered), manner is foolishness. You are dishonest when you imply that mhendo had claimed that you had “suggested math, science and engineering should be the only types of courses taught.” mhendo was quite careful to note that those were the only subjects you selected as examples. Given that you were complaining about the realm of ideas, your deliberate (as you have confirmed) choice to omit any of the philosophical disciplines is quite pertinent to your presentation. Backpedalling to claim that the philosophical disciplines were “not germane” to your post–a silly rant against a philosophical perspective–goes pretty far beyond mere disingenuousness.
I suspect that your choice to declaine to read further probably had more to do with your inability to provide any factual or honest rebuttal. (Or, possibly, a difficulty in understanding the actual issues involved? 
)
I think it’s in the foreword to the Necronomicon, but don’t hold me to it, because my copy has gone missing.
I’m not usually one to boast (mainly because the mocking laughter it usually elicits hurts, man) but I myself did spend six or so years earning a four-year degree, and try as I might I don’t recall being indoctrinated into anything. My attendance was not without its intervals, so it’s possible I was playing hooky on Leftist Assimilation Day, but I didn’t hear any of my less absent classmates mention it either.
Of course there were lefties among my esteemed alumni, and probably a goodly number of teachers who’d cop to slanting liberal if you asked them nicely, but it was hardly the Bleedingheart Finishing School of your dark fantasies.
Perhaps there are such places. I would be interested in seeing some examples first, before I aver that they are a real scourge upon the nation that must be stopped at all costs.
Oops, I made the mistake of scanning some of your post anyway, and now I get it. You’re an indoctrinaire yourself! Sure, you’d rather have a classroom full of engaged conservatives than apathetic liberals any day, but that’s not what you get is it? No, you get apathetic blank slates, by and large, and attempt to engage them by railing against all that is wrong with America and it’s knuckle-dragging, Christian, right-wing population.
You point to “X” number of Republican presidents and/or congressional elections and pretend this belies the propagation of liberalism in this country, but those elections are largely the result of the older population being more conservative, and/or as a backlash against the consequences of liberal influence on society up to that time. Still, liberal politics and liberal ideology have driven almost all societal change in the U.S. since the 1960s. The role of conservatives has largely been to try to hold it in check to whatever degree possible.
I don’t think there can be the slightest doubt in the mind of any reasonable person that the percentage of the population that identifies as liberal has risen markedly over the last forty years…I would estimate (no cite) that it’s gone from less than 10% to nearly 50%. And further, I would estimate that the vast majority of people graduating from college today either hold or are largely sympathetic to the liberal POV. Now, to what do you think one should attribute this remarkable political shift among the college age population? No, it isn’t the war, and it isn’t the economy, and it isn’t Hollywood nor even the media. It’s the result of the endless liberal drumbeat pounded out in college after college and university after university year after year in this country since the late sixties, and it’s in large part the reason why Dopers come in here from England wondering why so many Americans dislike America.
And on preview, it’s good to see that friend elucidator regards common sense with such disdain. (Nice straw man and nice mischaracterization of the term, there, chum.) It’s also typical, IMO, of liberal college professors, and liberal activists in the main, that the population at large can’t be depended upon to use common sense [to arrive at the liberal mindset] and they must therefore be indoctrinated into it while they are still at an impressionable age.
And on further preview, I see the predictable pack has begun to gather and given that, as I said, I don’t have the rest of the night available to argue the point, I must take my leave and let you make of my words whatever you will.
Bet ol’ Duh Trihs is feeling kind of neglected, since this became the Starving Artist Show.
Oh…one more thing: In reading tomndebb’s post, I find it interesting to note that of all the points I made, he, like mhendo, have chosen to try to make an issue of the choice of subjects I posted, as though I were either unaware of the existence of subjects that were by their very nature political or that I was afraid to mention them for fear of undermining my own point. This of course, is followed by the Standard SDMB Criticism No. 10, which is that I was being dishonest, or at least disingenuous, given that he had taken it upon himself to divine what was truly in my mind at the time.
So, before I leave, let me just point out that, at the very least, most of these same subjects were being taught pre-1967, and yet somehow the effect on the nation’s youth was largely benign. What do you suppose accounts for the difference between that time and now?
Yup! The ball’s right back in your court again…liberal bias and activism on the part of those teaching the classes is what accounts for the difference.
Your serve. (Though I won’t be available to return it as I really am gonna go now. Honest. I am. 'Night all.)
And on preview, I bet he is too, luci. But Der Trihs is a hopeless case; I’m just trying to do my bit to keep more like him from being manufactured.
But… but… but you just accused mhendo of this! So you can tell that he is dishonest, but no one can tell you are dishonest? My poor brain (apparently poisoned! I must have a strong word with my dangerous liberal professors!) can’t hand this logic. If only they had spent more time teaching me useful things instead of indoctrinating me to hate America and puppies! I’m so ashamed.
FUCK!!!
He is dishonest for the same reason tomndeb was dishonest: they both pretended to know what I was thinking.
Now I’m out of here.
Hi, Zoe…did you see my post about Vanity Fair and Kitty Carlisle?
Do you know what makes me a liberal? The Constitution of the United States of America – especially The Bill of Rights.
And that’s how you can tell if I am anti-American or not. Do I want to sneak around and violate your Constitutional Rights to privacy: Read your mail and email, listen to your phone conversations, look at your bank records, look at what you check out of the library? No-o-o-o-o! That’s not the liberals.
Do I want to hold you in prison without benefit of due process? No-o-o-o-o! That is not a liberal position.
Love America, love the Constitution. Live by it or go through the proper procedures for changing it.
If you don’t like my protests against the government, go find a government that didn’t have a Thomas Jefferson behind it.
And don’t forget that it is the duty of the American government to be pro “the people”.
Unfortunately, George Bush serves at my displeasure.
So I’m learning!
Indeed.
By “rest of the night,” i assume you meant “intelligence and integrity.”
The dishonesty of your argumentation, and the sheer ignorance of your historical worldview, remind me of the late, unlamented milroyj. You truly are a staggering example of wilfull ignorance.
Well, to be fair, it’s not clear that you even know what you’re “thinking.”
Also, you drooling caveman, the fact is that one can only respond to what you wrote, which is exactly what i did. Here’s the sequence of events:
You claimed to be talking about political indoctrination on college campuses.
You called for leaving political indoctrination out of college classrooms, and in doing so made specific reference to three subject areas where political persuasion is unlikely to be an issue in the first place.
I pointed out that your examples missed the types of courses where politics is an integral part of the subject matter, and noted that making such courses completely apolitical is pretty much impossible.
You accuse me of dishonesty in making this distinction, while at the same time admitting that your omission of the types of courses i was talking about was completely intentional. The only thing more ridiculous than this is that you also had the gall to claim that the particular subjects mentioned “weren’t really germane to the thrust of [your] post.”
With this level of dishonesty, you should expect a phone call offering you a prominent position in the Bush White House.
Makes me absolutely crazy to sometimes, in limited amounts, to find myself agreeing with Dip Shit.
Jeez. Leave it to Starving Artist to turn a Red Shirt pitting into a Starving Artist pitting.
Whatta maroon.
Now, can we go back to talking about what a dolt Der Trihs is? So, the premise is, I’d be out there lynching Ay-rabs, except now that George Bush is doing it for me over in Eye-raq, I don’t have to? My rage is soothed?
The ironic thing about **DT **is that he has so many similarities to Bush. Both are ideologically rigid, seeing the world always in black and white. Neither is really interested in what the other side has to say, and routinely demonizes them anyway. It’s “us” vs “them”, except for **DT **“us” seems to consist only of him.
There can be the slightest doubt, since you are full of crap.
Forty years ago, when I was in high school, I did campaign work for the Conservative Party in New York. We were pretty much considered marginalized loons. 40 years ago Barry Goldwater was an extreme radical - today he’d be on the left wing of the Republican party. In 1968 the candidates for president were Hubert Humphrey and Richard Nixon, both liberals by today’s standards.
Maybe you missed the conservative effort to make liberal a dirty word over the past 10 years or so? That has such a negligible effect that it got a radical right winger kind of elected.
If liberalism is coming back, it is not because of indoctrination, but because your political philosophy, given a chance to work, has made such a cock-up of this country that its intellectual and moral bankruptcy has been revealed to anyone with more brains than a peanut.
If you sell this indoctrination garbage, no doubt the next step is to blame the liberals for Iraq, Gitmo, and the DoJ, since them being so powerful they could have stopped it if they wanted to.
That’s close to his premise. Evidently the premise is you would’ve done that on the morning of September 12, 2001; however, your fortune-telling ability, along with everyone else in the US, was of such an advanced nature, you knew that some time later there would be attacks overseas, thus soothing your immediate rage.
I really have no idea what planet this “reasonable person” you think is from, but poll data indicate that the number of people who identify themselves as liberals has not moved a whit (about 18%) in three decades. Another poll.
Seriously, you’ve got to get a grip. Your “common sense” is actually boogeymen that only those with extreme political prejudices can see.