That one quite often convicts me, as does this one.
Humpy, personal revelation of the Lord is clear and ubiquitous. For the person. Not so easy for the rest of the world to see. Also, this is the same Lib who posted… whose ontological proof of the existence of a god was it? The ‘has necessary qualities’ one.
Lib, not for nothing, but sometimes you sound a lot like Der Trihs to the rest of us. Might be worth thinking about that. A chance to see yourself as others see you.
Everybody? Might be worth replying to Der by borrowing old Ronnie’s ‘There you go again’ phrase. That way things don’t get derailed. It’s not that his points aren’t valid, but they sure as heck can’t be argued appropriately due to the venom within.
Lib, turn the other cheek already. Turn it! Criticizing your critics wastes time you could spend feeding the hungry and comforting the afflicted. It says nothing one way or the other about your supernatural beliefs.
Word. That is the thing about DT (and it’s not just religion, it’s just about ANYTHING that the general society/culture confers some approval of institutional loyalty, including countries – he has said he’d probably hate any nation he were born/live in). DT’s intervention is often beside the point of the specific discussion. It’s like we were discussing automobile airbags or headlamps and someone came in to rant about how any user of motorized transport is contributing to global warming and supporting wars for oil and a lard-ass lazy bum for not walking everywhere, only with the added element that on all counts they’re simultaneously (a) delusional and mentally sick AND (b) morally culpable.
George Kaplin, your entire post is quite to the point and well stated. Indeed religion gets a bit too much of a courtesy pass in debate. But DT’s approach only serves to give comfort to the apologists because they can dismiss him as a crank. And BTW, Lib, you may wish to lessen the stress by doing just that. Really, man I’m sure God appreciates your standing up, but The Big Guy can take care of himself, of yourself, and of your antagonist with ease, no need to get bent out of shape, let it flow over and past you.
Statements 1-3 are all very true from my perspective. I especially like the last one.
I know on an intellecutal level that the constructive criticisms are correct. I know that my passion is often overblown. I do wish I were natured more like Triskadecamus, who I think is exemplified in this post with his “Stop, or I’ll forgive you!”. That’s why I love it when he comes to my home. I feel like the irascible Levi having Jesus as a guest.
Yes, but so what? It is not more stupid than Survivor, Lord of the Rings or football. People here routinely discuss those issues (and Buffy!). Can’t the religious talk about their little worlds of fantasy just like other people discuss Tolkien and the Patriots?. As long as they are not making calls to action (which are forbidden here for any topic), or threadshitting other threads about other topics (We shouldn’t go to Mars because God told us not to), what is the harm?
And someone (guess) might come and say “oh, but there is harm, because religion is eeeeeeevil, and makes people do bad things”. Well, so does TV and smog, and Bush, and Hillary, and pot, and sunlight. Whatever. That doesn’t give anyone the right to threadshit other people’s discussions.
He’s annoying as hell, but he’s only powerful in direct proportion to how much people respond to him. If everyone simply ignored his posts (and ignored those responding to his posts), and focused on the OP, he’d be back to muttering in the corner where he belongs.
Pretty much.
I considered Pitting him over his comments in how to support the troops, even if one disagrees with the whole war. Then I figured, meh, who gives a shit? Dude’s a total joke, if not an out and out troll. Does anyone, besides Liberal, take him seriously? All he wants is to derail the thread-why should we let him?
Lib, it helps if you just look at him as the Ann Coulter of the Left.
I see what you’re saying, but I can’t help wondering how far people would tolerate LOTR threads if those involved genuinely seemed to be operating under the delusion that Frodo Baggins and Sam were anything other than wholly fictitious. Heated multipage threads discussing the extent of Gandalf’s magic powers (or whatever LOTR lore would be likely to spawn such a thread, I’m not really a Tolkein fan) are only tolerated because those involved are fully aware that they’re discussing a fairy story. If a poster appeared to be operating under the delusion that the events and characters in LOTR were anything other than wholly fictitious he would likely be called out for trolling, or, if it transpired he were genuinely sincere, perhaps even banned for his own good. Reminding the participants of a LOTR thread that, yes, it’s all a load of fairytale nonsense is only threadshitting because everyone involved already knows that it’s all a load fairytale nonsense. If the fanboys believed that Tolkein were some sort of mystic who transcribed historical events, there would be nothing wrong with trying to help them snap out of it.
Religious claims have always been promulgated with the intention that they be taken as fact. Few people appreciate that organised religions expend relatively little effort defending the airy metaphysical pronouncements which occupy the theologians, and a great deal of time making claims about biology, physics, and history which, in principle, demand evidentiary substantiation. The truth claims of organised religion have remained largely unquestioned for thousands of years, and their longevity has afforded them a patina of respectability, gravitas, and integrity, which is wholly unmerited. In a nutshell, religious believers have absolutely no right to expect anything other than mockery when they advance these claims as being true. Just like a LOTR obsessive would be laughed off the boards (or perhaps given the contact information of accredited psychiatric institutes) if he sincerely posed the question of why ‘Fellowship of the Ring’ won the Oscar for ‘Best Picture’ rather than ‘Best Documentary’.
We have now reached a stage in our discourse where we are free to rigorously interrogate religious truth claims without fear of legal censure (a relatively recent freedom, and one which is still yet to materialise in much of the Muslim world), and, yes, to speak plainly about how floridly irrational so many of them are. I find it galling in the extreme that those who make frank and strident condemnations of religious lunacy can be compared to stomach ulcers. I don’t know Der Trihs. He could be the biggest asshole in the world, for all I know. But he’s not an asshole for calling religious beliefs crazy and subversive because, when stripped of the consecrating baggage of antiquity and viewed in a cold and sober light, it’s rather difficult to call them anything else.
Me too, everything George said in post #30. I won’t bother trying cause he said it better than I can.
One wonders how much bile would well up in you if you were compared to a lunatic, or a delusional paranoid, or an idiot, or a madman, or any number of other manifestations of mental illness and retardation — all because of a particular belief you held, like Elton John is great or Elton John sucks. For all your analogies about LOTR, there are those of us who believe pretty much in spite of the Bible or the church leaders or organized religion. There are those of us who believe because of our life experience. If I had to rely on what Pat Robinson says about God, I’d still be an atheist. I have no problem, for example, with whether God created the universe or not. Makes no difference. The universe serves His purpose all the same. I grant you that there exist religious lunatics (and atheist lunatics). But what you don’t seem to understand about Der Trihs is that he does not differentiate between the guy volunteering at the soup kitchen because he believes the Lord has called on him to serve others, and the guy who makes millions by forming a large political organization and defrauding the faithful.
Der Trihs’s schtick is that religion is all bad, all the time. And he’s got a bit of a persecution complex about it. I’ve long since learned to expect this from him, and to shrug it off as just the way he is. That’s his thing. As long as he stays away from talking about religion (and maybe one or two other hot button issues), he’s a reasonable poster who makes a worthwhile contribution to the SDMB.
Der Trihs is a bigot, is all there is to it. But at least he’s the good kind of bigot: the kind that’s completely impotent. He’s never going to be in a position to impose his particular brand of hatred on anyone in any stronger form than bleating at them on a message board. If a genuinely militiant (as in, has guns and is willing to use them) atheist movement ever got underway in the US, he’d be a genuine danger, but that’s not ever going to happen. Not in the any of our lifetimes, anyway. That makes it a lot easier for me to ignore the gibbering and hand-waving. But then, it’s not me he’s gibbering about, so I’m not as emotionally involved.
Maybe he is and maybe he isn’t, but as far as I’m concerned, sifting through Trihs’s posts to find the good ones is too much like looking for a sandwich in a landfill. It doesn’t matter how good the sandwich is. I don’t care if it’s got extra thick turkey slices and that yellow deli mustard, it’s not worth sifting through garbage to find it, especially since I can get a sandwich anywhere.
Likewise, this board is full of reasonable posters who make a worthwhile contribution and don’t feel the need to tell us how they hope our troops get slaughtered in Iraq or how theists are retarded. Trihs isn’t a jewel in a pile of shit. He’s a lump of dog shit in a jewelry store.
You have no idea how statements like this are unbelievably offensive to many people, do you?
With that one flippant comment you reduce me and everyone who does not believe in your fairytale to mere cogs in your delusion. Frankly I don’t believe in god and if he did exist I would tell him to fuck off. He may have created the universe but I have to live in it.
I agree with DT and I am glad somebody stands up to religio-fascists. I don’t have the inclination or the eloquence needed to tell you religious freaks to just shut the fuck up every time you start spouting drivel.
What scares me is that someday people like you will turn this country into a Christian version of Afghanistan under the Taliban. The only thing stopping you is people like DT. People willing to take a stand and say fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
I was in the store the other day and a little old lady said Merry Christmas I smiled and said Merry Christmas back to her. Then she said “Jesus loves you” I wanted to scream fuck you and hit her with a brick. Make no mistake, the path from “jesus loves you” to stoning people in the streets for wearing the wrong head scarf, is amazingly short.
Dude, are you totally delusion or what? Do you hate your mother? Fer cryin’ out loud, today is the 2-hour finale episode of Survivor, China. It’s like Christmas and Easter all rolled into one!
Yeah, I mean wouldn’t you have to venture out of your parents’ basement in order to do that?
No, I don’t.
The fact that you expected me to know that my statement would offend you, while not knowing yourself that references to fairy tales and delusions would be offensive to me indicates that our frames of reference are impossibly far apart. I do not believe that I can effectively communicate with you, so I won’t bother trying.
Stay cool, man. We like you. And goodness knows, I’m not saying you’re wrong, either. Just sometimes hard to discuss things with. In this case, you’re not even hard to discuss with, either. The mirror was just so blantantly there I had to hold it up.