I notice a key word missing from that link you provided-atheism. Can you come up with a person you like who can publicly influence large amounts of people by speaking on the topic of atheism itself? Someone who can get on the Sunday talk shows, the news networks and/or the nationally syndicated radio shows, and talk directly on the topic of atheism.
Yes, bad arguments. If Der Trihs or anyone else makes bad arguments you SHOULD be pointing out the flaws in those arguments, regardless what side you’re on. Definitely.
But that’s completely different from “making good arguments, but being kinda disrespectul about it”, which is what this thread is about.
I’ve never understood why otherwise intelligent people seem to think that when it comes to religion saying things like “nyah nyah you believe in the made up sky fairy” is anything other that rude.
Please don’t change quotes within quote tags. If you want to do the same with quotation marks, that’s fine, but the quote tags are sacrosanct. No warning issued.
Gfactor
Pit Moderator
Because it’s true? If anything that’s overly polite; believing in God is even more stupid than believing in fairies since they are more physical and less grandiose in their supposed powers. That’s exactly why you get mockery like the Flying Spaghetti Monster - because the FSM is at least as plausible as God ( probably more ) and has just as much evidence for it.
And I’ve never understood why otherwise intelligent people seem to think that when it comes to religion, saying things like “Although there is no presentable evidence, I believe in (insert sky fairy of choice)” they have the right to be offended when called on it.
I didn’t say “nyah nyah”. If you’ve got some evidence that religious beliefs are anything other than fabricated in the minds of men, lay it on us. 5000+ years of human history and as far as I can tell, it’ll all been swapping one piece of fiction for another.
If you can’t provide such evidence, then the time for nyah is nigh.
Lots of us know it’s considered rude. It’s still correct, though.
And yet, you wonder why people don’t like you.
We know exactly why people don’t like us. Foolish people never like it when someone points out their foolishness.
Sacrosanct, huh? Go after him Der Trihs! Religious fanaticism cannot be tolerated in our moderators!! :eek:
Out of curiosity, what’s the nice way to say it?
(Jumping in, haven’t red whole thread (this time…))
Really? Cause of how accommodating our laws are for atheists, and how none of them are hatched, inspired, campaigned for, and rammed home by churches? Witness Maine, California, and 29 others regarding Civil Rights for homosexuals - our Federal laws alone make 1100 distinctions alone, and none of them are favorable. At best,they are separate but equal, but generally separate and not equal. I am on the front grounds of this debate here in California, and I have not heard a single argument proposed in support of such laws that resonated with anyone that was at best barely disguised appeals to religion, generally there is no disguise at all.
I thought (I ain’t no expert, but I have my ears open) that Jesus’ teaching was about loving people and living by the Golden Rule. I have a hard time believing that those that pass these votes are true Christians at all, but I don’t see the True Christians standing up to counter their faux-believers in the next pew. some will engage me honestly behind the scenes, and I appreciate that, but it is always “off the record” and never of much practical value in getting the fauxs to stfu.
So if you want respect, then work to halt the people who use religion to alter the secular lives of people, whether they are religious themselves or not, simply for who they are. Could standing up for the oppressed be any more in line with what Jesus would do?
Although I’d suggest that it would be simple courtesy not to call them on it unless their unsupported belief will impact you/us.
(I like this xkcd strip on Beliefs).
Some of us fortunately seldom end up in this position, but it does seem from reading these boards that US atheists have rather more reason to be vocal and (yes, even perhaps a bit asshole-ish) about it to get their point and dissatisfaction across.
Or maybe people don’t like you because you act like a complete tool?
I guess I didn’t make myself clear. I’m saying that a mainline church wouldn’t want to necessarily chase away those who leaned toward biblical inerrancy, for example. They certainly would be wary of doctrinal disputes. My “Big tent” was suppose to refer to worshippers: I wasn’t trying to claim that one church was trying to subsume another.
Of course my guesses may be off mark. It’s my impression that mainline churches don’t go out of their way to attack fundamentalism. I believe that they have solid organizational reasons for doing this. Am I wrong?
A noted exception to my generalization is the United Church of Christ. Czarcasm has presumably seen their ads as well: I concede that they are outweighed by the noise of the Religious Right.
Regarding my remarks upthread, this relates to why I thought your goal wasn’t persuasion. (see post 322) You seem to believe that the religious won’t listen to you anyway, so diplomacy is fruitless.
On matters of war and peace, Der’s views are far to the left of the Democratic Party and have zilch chance of being implemented for the next few decades. So tact may be a mugs game in that case as well.
Furthermore, Der is bright enough to understand Princhester’s contention that comments leavened with hostility rarely persuade anyone. That said, Der’s positioning has the virtue of making most of us lefties appear moderate, though it also mandates that we play cleanup every now and then.
To be clear though, it appears that Der doesn’t take the position that I ascribe to him.
More generally, Der’s posts are poorly substantiated, generally speaking. It’s really not sufficient to be correct. You have to be demonstrably correct to operate at the top levels. OTOH, Der’s take-downs have the advantage of speed and succinctness.
It also helps not to repeat the same word over and over and OVER again… if one wants to play at the “top levels”. Generally speaking. :smack::smack::smack::smack:
Even if I grant that description, that hardly explains the general national hostility towards atheists. Most people who hate me don’t even know I exist and never will; they hate me because of what I believe, not because of anything I’ve said much less done. I don’t suck up to their fantasy, so I’m a monster to them.
So what explains the hostility towards everyone here? The hyperbole, the exaggerations, the extreme and ridiculous bullshit you spew? And it’s NOT just about religion.