Describe your conversion from religion to atheism or agnosticism.

An excellent point.

One of the most disappointing $20 I’ve ever spent was Dawkins’s The God Delusion. It has its good points but one of Dawkins’s principal arguments - this is not a side point, but an argument he puts a lot of emphasis on - is “There’s no God because a lot of smart people don’t believe in God.” Well, thanks, Rich, that’s really persuasive evidence. I know a lot of smart people who do believe in God, so what do we make of that? My anecdote can beat up your little brother.

Actually, I know smart people who believe a lot of different idiocies. It’s a terrible way of coming to a conclusion.

I was raised a Catholic. I first remember questioning things at about age 8 or 9 or so. I asked my Christian Ethics teacher some questions like how the whole earth could have been flooded. The answers did not satisfy my curiousity - but I still believed.

In college I messed around trying a few different evangelical churches. What really surprised me there was their attitudes towards Catholics and even other protestant faiths. Each church was the ‘true’ faith. Seemed so contradictory. Then I learned there were over 10,000 religions in the world and Christianity was but one of them. As I went through college and became more educated in the sciences - the big picture of how the earth came to be didn’t seem so mysterious to me.

So, in a nutshell, after being told my whole life by everyone around me how religion is the only way I finally left the ‘leap of faith’ category because I became more educated. The hardest part was probably realizing that after I die, that is it for my conscience. But I realized that further deluding myself regarding that issue was pointless.

To be fair, it’s probably several dozen of them.

I was born and raised Catholic. I don’t know when it started to happen, or why. I don’t know what the trigger was. But, being someone who likes to think for himself, and decide for myself, and also becoming more informed about other religions etc…

I looked at the fine words. I looked at the other guy’s fine words. I compared them to the fine words in the Bible. Then I thought for a while about all the rules everyone had, how they differed, how some expect salvation for just saying they have faith a(mouthing the magic words) nd others predict hell for anyone who’s less than perfect. Hell you can toss in the “send me money if you want salvation” creeps. Finally, I threw away all the fine words and rules and looked at what people DO. It seemed all their rules applied to you and not to them. You go to jail or go to hell (or both), they just say “I have sinned” and get instant forgiveness. It’s bullshit.

I became apathetic to the whole thing. All these religions and sects and factions. All of them with a different “one true faith” claiming all the others were false. Some of it is good and true. Some of it is confusing. Some of it is contradictory. Some of it is garbage. Some of it is just horse shit. So, with the brain GOD gave me, which I should think HE meant to be used (why else would he give me one), I threw it all away and do what I see as fit and proper. Because in the end, IF there is an afterlife, there will be only one being I answer to. No one else. And I doubt HE really gives a shit if I keep Kosher, tithe, believe a specific “right” fairy tale, or mouth the right magic words.

At an early age we went to a church that promoted very traditional roles. So much so my grandmother still isn’t completely convinced it wasn’t a cult. My sister and I objected because they had some ridiculously long services. Usually 45 min of music and basic stuff, THEN Sunday School for about an hour and a half. Service started at 9:00 and sometimes wouldn’t get over until 11:30. It was balls.

After a couple years break we started in at a different church who basically took the opposite approach. Robust kids services, whole thing took about 45 minutes to an hour and didn’t start until 10:30. The student services were nicely focused on age appropriate issues without being preachy. The problem was after we outgrew that particular age group, the other one was at the earlier service. Still a fine church, but we haven’t been regular church goers since.

As for moving from believer to non-believer it just came with further science education I guess. I didn’t find “faith” appealing and science offered far more logical and reasonable answers.

I’m from the second or third generation of agnostics and atheists. I’m not at all passionate about it; I am interested in religion and have gone through a couple of what you might call “seeker” phases. I just kept discovering that nothing theistic made much sense to me, ever where it was emotionally appealing. My brother is quite passionately atheistic and always has been, starting at least as early as age five. I don’t know what makes for the difference.

I’m not sure if there’s that much of difference, I’ve been a ‘seeker’ for a year or two, but I’ve never found anything worthwhile. At the same time, my “atheist passion” only grew.

I don’t really agree with your interpretation of the god delusion; as far as I can see it’s just a big kick in the nuts of the regular god concepts. With a bunch of good arguments why the anti-god arguments are valid and more importantly, why people should be allowed to kick god/religion in the nuts in the first place. The arguments against god aren’t particularly interesting, because they’re unnessessary. As far as I can see, there isn’t any evidence for any kind of god. If anyone claims that their particular god(s) exist(s), show me the fucking evidence or leave me be in peace.

Shrug. I stopped caring about what anyone else thinks I’m supposed to believe. It’s just that I have “a problem” with things.

When something makes no sense, when I know it’s wrong, I am not satisfied with “you need more faith” or “mysterious ways” or “it’s a mystery”. Bullshit. There are all these rules, prohibitions, contradictions, and “we are not meant to understand”? Wrong answer.

If you can’t explain why it’s bad to “have an evil thought” (just a random stray brain fart kind of thought that we can’t control anyway), and then can’t articulate WHY, then it’s useless to me. Bad thoughts are bad. Kinda sounds like lolcats logic, doesn’t it. Bad thought is bad. Serious cat is serious. Uh huh.

If you can’t explain why we used to HAVE TO eat fish on Friday, and then magically one day it’s suddenly OK, then it’s nonsense. Does God really care about that? Did He change His mind? Or was it nonsense to begin with.

If you say birth control is evil, but have no idea how to cope with all the unwanted children already out there, then it’s worse than wrong, it’s bullshit.

If on the one hand you say we have to follow certain rules because they are in the BIG GIANT BOOK, when I know damn well you don’t follow so many others, in that same book, then it’s bullshit.

There were too many things that I KNOW to be wrong, and I’m not a deep thinker. One man’s saint is another man’s heretic. One man’s god is another man’s demon.

I was raised quite religiously and I was pretty devout in my beliefs until my late 20’s or so. At some point I recognized that religion didn’t have logical consistency in its favor. I was willing to let that slide, but then I noticed how obvious it was how religious “laws” aligned so neatly with the desires of different (and opposing) groups of men. At that point it all unravelled pretty quickly.

I had a trigger moment.

My religious upbringing was casual. “God” was the explanation offered to fill in the blanks of the stuff my folks didn’t know about, the Big Question sort of things. Well and good. We still went to church sometimes, too, but it wasn’t an absolute demand. I’m a heavy sleeper, and was especially so when I was a kid, and whenever my parents didn’t want to hassle with waking me up, they’d let me sleep in Sundays. I’d still be asleep when they got back from church. But I still genuinely believed in this sky-beard guy. Totally. I accepted it without question and based my moral system, such as it was at the time, on that premise. God exists. He said some things. We should live our lives according to what he said.

The problem was, I didn’t find myself caring so much what he said. I was disappointed in myself for not living up to the “standards” I’d set for myself (adolescence was not such a fun time), but I still didn’t give a good god crap about the good book itself. The thing was boring as hell. And this puzzled me. Why would such an important book, the most important book in the universe, be so bloody boring? I was a reader. I read all sorts of things. But I didn’t read that book, because it drove me out of my mind to try to do so. That was the first chink, the first little doubt that hovered in the back of my mind. But that’s not what pushed me over the top.

Eventually, I learned enough about the world to realize that our religious beliefs are inherited directly from our parents. Yeah, there are a few conversions here and there, but by and large, people become what their parents are. Muslims raise their kids to be Muslims. Hindus teach the little ones about Hinduism. Catholics beget Catholics. And so on. This was essential for me: Even if there was such a thing out there as a real religious Truth, fully deserving the capitalization, what beliefs we end up having has nothing to do with the Truth. Nothing whatever. We believe based on culture. This is entirely self-evident to anyone with half a brain. The fundamentalists know this quite well, which is why they concentrate so much on interfering with science education. They know the power of instilling the proper dogmatism early.

But even if some sort of high religious Truth exists, a possibility I’ve always been open to, we don’t believe based on this Truth. Each religious group thinks it has a monopoly on the Truth–and fuck, maybe one of them does–but they don’t at all believe the right Truth because it’s right. Not at all. They believe simply because they were born in a specific place, in a specific culture, and for no other reason. If one of them has the real Truth, they believe it only because they got lucky enough to be born in the right place, and for no other reason.

I was laying awake in my bed in high school, thinking about this, thinking about how lucky I’d been to be born in the right place. And then it hit me: That was the most fucking ridiculous thing I’d ever tried to convince myself of. I was congratulating myself on having the Truth, when the only reason I believed I had this Truth was a sheer accident of location. I had a brief panic attack when I realized that choosing a particular Truth based merely on this physical happenstance was idiotic. Then I asked myself why I was having this little panic attack. And then I wasn’t scared anymore.

And that was that.

My parents were/are atheists. My father was quietly so, and my mother was a bit more militant. I remember listening to my friends in school talk about all the things they did and church and going home and asking my father why we didn’t get to do all that stuff. My father replied that it was because organized religions often don’t make any sense. When I asked to go to church with a friend, I was allowed.

For a while after that, I lived in vague fear. I’ve always been a bit fanciful, my imagination is active, and I’ve had to cultivate skepticism. I wasn’t born with it. All the fun stories, all the rules, it was like one of my books. It was fun, and they were talking like it was all real. But then came the fear. If god was watching me everywhere because he loved me, then he saw all the bad stuff I was doing too. The idea upset me. I became scared of hell, and my parents going to hell. I remember when I was seven, there was a steep hill by my house that the kids would ride their bikes down. So many kids got hurt that one resident took it upon themselves to paint a large “NO BIKING” sign on the hill. I ignored it one afternoon and sped my bike down that hill anyway. Then it occurred to me that god had seen me disobey that sign. I ran home and sat in bed with the covers over my head. When I fell off the monkey bars the next day at school, I took it as my punishment.

That was a bit of a phase, and by the time my parents enrolled me in a Catholic school in Australia when I was 12, I had lapsed back into my un-thinking non belief. The Catholic trappings around me were confusing. Why were we bowing before we sat? When they offered communion, I had to go up to the front with my arms crossed, signifying that I was not Catholic. Instead of giving me Christ’s blood and body, I got a “bless you child” and the air-cross. A girl named Heidi once ran screaming out of the church on school grounds claiming that Jesus was touching her, but she was looking for attention and no one took her seriously. I wondered if all religions were this strange in practice. (As opposed to the “sit down and hear these stories” version I had been to as a very small child.)

Then we moved to the Deep South and my father died. I became openly antagonistic to religion, especially the version we’re served down here. I was angry because part of me thought it may be true, and I was profoundly angry at a god that would send my father to hell. He was a good man, and it wasn’t fair, it didn’t make sense. I broke up with a boyfriend in my early 20’s and suddenly got into Tarot, Astrology and Magick. It satisfied that fantastical parts of my brain without all the severeness and arbitrary rules of Christianity. I was into that hardcore for like, two years, to the point where I was almost insane. I believed all kinds of garbage. I read Tarot cards and said prayers to ancient Greek gods. I talked about Karma and Soul Lessons. I’m surprised no one committed me.

There was no one moment that I reverted back to atheism. I had two miscarriages and the grief brought my father’s death back to the surface. When discussing it with a fellow insane friend it suddenly occurred to me that it was so unfair to my father to wave his death away by saying we all needed to learn lessons from it. I needed to learn a lesson, I’m sure he would have rather lived to see his grandchildren. Then the fallacious thinking patterns I was engaging in to comfort myself were laid bare to me, one by one. I realized that I was comforting myself with crazy magical thinking instead of dealing with my emotional problems. As I started dealing with those problems, the need to carry around that crap just melted away. I began to realize that people get all kinds of things, both good and bad, that they don’t deserve, and it can’t be reasoned away with some kind of magical force without being glib or insensitive and wrong. The simple fact is that life is largely random, and that’s ok. There doesn’t have to be some grand purpose for us to be happy. It’s actually cruel in it’s own way to insist on some purpose.

With all the fluctuations between belief and non-belief I’ve been though, I’ve realized that it actually does us a lot of harm to believe in things without evidence. It harms us in all kinds of ways I can’t articulate now because I’m tired, and because this is already too long. But that’s where I am now. :slight_smile:

I really don’t remember the “moment,” but I remember a lot of the circumstances around it.

I grew up in a very conservative and religious part of the south. My parents are from California and I didn’t know it growing up, but they aren’t religious. I suspect that other people, or at least other people’s parents knew it, because I went to church with friends a lot, but I never felt accepted at all. They would say stuff that made them sound really accepting, but everything else about them screamed otherwise. And this wasn’t just one kind of church-- it was baptist, presbyterian, methodist, catholic, “non-denominational,” etc.

Despite this I reached a point around age 15 where I decided that being a Christian was The Right Thing To Do and really committed to it. I took Bible History as an elective in school, stopped trying to get laid, told my boss I couldn’t work on Sundays anymore, and started going to church twice a week.

At some point (probably more than once), I had heard a sermon that emphasized a passage that said even thinking about sinning was as bad as sinning itself. This REALLY messed with my head and basically amounted to mind control. I guess my subconscious started rebelling at some point because I started having increasingly fucked-up daydreams-- the pinnacle probably being a recurring image of myself anally raping Jesus, even though I’ve never had any homosexual tendencies.

By the end of that school year, we had read most of the bible in class, been lectured on it by the very conservative Christian teacher, and the parts we didn’t cover I had read on my own. I think it was that summer (the summer I turned 16) when the faith I had invested so much in pretending to have just rapidly eroded.

IF I ever had any capacity to believe, I’d say being surrounded by rude, mean-spirited, hypocritical Christians my whole life combined with actually reading the Bible killed it.

No conversion, really. I was born into a Catholic society, but grew out of it by the time I was 12. My parents never instructed nor evangelicized me into any form of religious thought. They were Uninterested.

I was questioning at 7, a Deist at 12, an Agnostic at 17, and an uninformed Atheist from 17 to early 30’s. At some point I became aware that religion might be an insidiously malignant influence in society, rather than the passively beneficial influence that I had assumed it to be for most of my life.

I then actively investigated the truth claims of religion, and was appalled to discover that there weren’t any. Until then I had assumed that my lack of belief in a deity was just one opinion that was no more valid than any other.

I then tumbled into my current status as a Confirmed Atheist. I understand that there are others who have come to different conclusions, but I no longer consider those positions to be intellectualy valid.

I was raised as a Southern Baptist. When I was a kid, it was rare for my family to go to church but my brother and I were in a private school where it was all Jesus, all the time. I think the first time I got “saved” I was about five, and I was really afraid of going to hell. Even after that, I didn’t feel very safe and would periodically pray for salvation just to make sure.

It always upset me to hear people talking about feeling the presence of the Lord, or hearing His voice, or the great sense of joy they felt in church, because I didn’t feel a darn thing. I tried not to think about this very hard, because when I did I got scared about hell again. I decided to just play along, and when Jesus was ready, he’d share the magic.

Finally, when I was around twelve or thirteen years old, it occurred to me that I was completely bored with pretending, and besides, God must know I was faking it. So I quit. By this time, I was in public school, but my grandmother was getting much more religious and going to church every time the doors opened. A few years later, when I moved in with her, she started making me go too. We fought about it all the time, and the more church was pushed on me, the more I hated it and the madder I got.

At this point, I think I still had some belief left, because I decided to check out some other religions. I eventually came to realize that I was trying to fill a spiritual need that didn’t even exist. I was just as happy with no religion at all! And when I started to grok that the universe made more and more sense, the further from religion I got, well, then I started to feel some real peace and joy that I’d never known.

I’d have called myself an agnostic when I came here. I think reading these debates, and other things, have helped me to realize that I really don’t believe at all. I still have some bitterness towards Christianity for all the misery it caused me, and since I live in the Bible Belt, I get frequently annoyed by Christians (including Grandma, that stubborn old bat). :slight_smile: I’m trying not to be that atheist who goes around telling people I think their beliefs are ridiculous, but wow! I’m surprised now that it took me so long to figure it out.

I was raised Episcopalian. I was very involved in church: classes, altar boy, clubs, etc. I was a bit of a science nut, so I thought that if the story of Jesus was true then it was really important because it was an example of something that violated the physical laws of nature. I was surprised that other people didn’t take it that way.

I had friends that were from a variety of religions including Judaism. I started to think about the fact that the reason I was Episcopalian was because my mother was. If I had been born to a different family I would be something else, and I would be just as convinced that it was the right religion. Then I though about the Buddhists, Hindus, and other religions that also thought they were right. I thought that if there were x religions I had a 1/x chance of being in the right one. All of a sudden it just occurred to me that it’s more likely they are *all * wrong. Once I started down that path it all made sense. Why does God let people suffer? He doesn’t because he doesn’t exist.
Why are we here? Why does there have to be a reason.
What happens when we die? We just die just like any other animal.
All of those philosophical questions just melted away and there no longer was any special case of something that violated our physical laws. Frankly, I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t think like I do once they near adulthood.

That rabbi was a very wise man. Too bad there aren’t more people like him.

Not necessarily, no. As I’ve mentioned before I was a “red diaper baby”, raised by devoutly atheist Marxists. I went through one brief phase of hedging my bets-style praying starting around 2nd grade, under the influence of my very nice and very devout babysitter. But generally speaking I’ve been an atheist all my life.

Yet even at my most militant ( say, my early twenties ), I was a pretty mild-mannered atheist compared to some and these days I sometimes get the feeling my more militant brethren on these boards would consider me an “Uncle Tom” :D. Honestly even when I was younger and more full of beans, New Age hokum like crystals, pyramid power and homeopathy got far more up my ass than the traditionally devout.

But then, whether via nature or nurture, I’ve always been easy-going about most things in life. And while my folks are more openly contemptuous of religious faith than I tend to be, they also did not inculcate me ( or my step-brothers ) in a miasma of anti-religious hatred. We still celebrated Christmas ( presents! ) and Easter ( chocolate and easter eggs! ) in a secular, relaxed fashion.

A secular Easter you ask? Yep - apparently it can be done. I honestly don’t think I made the connection to it being an overwhelmingly religious holiday until I was in my teens ;). Which was about the first time I really got much exposure to any religious education at all. Even my grandparents were at most cultural Christians ( Southern Baptist and Eastern Orthodox, respectively ), who as it turned out only attended services on very rare occasions.

Which one? Also your former husband seems to have been a wicked man which is quite unfortunate. :frowning:

Raised as an occasional Jew, with some Christian services thrown in, but overall we didn’t fuss too much about it. Never believed. It just never occurred to me to. My loss of faith was of a different nature - I had assumed that religion and all the God stuff was just something that people paid lip service to but didn’t actually believe in, like Santa Claus or the 55mph speed limit. One day while listening to some adults talking of God it suddenly dawned on me that they were speaking literally - they were truly sincere and totally invested, hook, line and sinker. I was horrified. I was nine or ten at the time, and it changed the nature of my relationship to other people - I went from “We’re all in this together!” to “Holy crap, the lot of you are crazy, and a lost cause. You stay here, I’ll be over there.”

It’s a shame. I really wanted to belong. Just not to them.