Desecration of enemy's corpse: when taboo?

[lieu]

@jjimm

Here you go FWIW.

I wondered if dissemination of knowledge about Japanese atrocities at Wake Island might have played a roll and apparently it did. That of course is a grim predictor for how those outraged by the recent photos might react.

[aceplace57]

This quote from the wiki article is quite revealing. Substitute Afghan for Japanese and the quote is current.

Raw combat dehumanizes even the best of us, These men are going weeks without proper sleep, they are in constant danger, their friends are dying, and they are living in mud & filth. This is a different world from the crisp uniforms and parades we usually see on tv.
1000 yard stare

We learned about savagery from the Japanese… But those sixteen-to-nineteen-year old kids we had on the Canal were fast learners… At daybreak, a couple of our kids, bearded, dirty, skinny from hunger, slightly wounded by bayonets, clothes worn and torn, wack off three Jap heads and jam them on poles facing the ‘Jap side’ of the river… The colonel sees Jap heads on the poles and says, ‘Jesus men, what are you doing? You’re acting like animals.’ A dirty, stinking young kid says, ‘That’s right Colonel, we are animals. We live like animals, we eat and are treated like animals–what the fuck do you expect?’

[Aji_de_Gallina]

We cannot forget that they are not even regualr army with uniforms and Geneva and all the shit.

Here in Peru, in the darkest moments against the motherfucking terrorists, people I knew told about how it destroys your mind seeing your men killed by the grenade lobbed by the innocent looking kid or granny the came offering something to eat.
Soldiers are demoralised when fighting against enemies other than regulars, and the feelings are less “nice”.

[Gagundathar]

Nothing good can come from this.
Our mission there is to … um… what is our mission there, anyway?

[Theophane]

@sciurophobic

With the current condemnation of the incontinent U.S. soldiers and the dead Taliban I was wondering: when did it become unacceptable to mistreat the body of your enemy? Achilles dragged Hector’s body around Troy, but I don’t know if that was considered bad form or not.

It’s bad form when US soldiers aren’t the ones doing it. A rash statement, I know, but it’s true.

[BSweet69]

@aceplace57

Up until the recent century bodies were stripped on the battlefield. I think there’s a famous painting of dead Napoleonic troops stripped and nude on the battlefield. Everything got reused uniforms, boots, hats etc. IIRC it was a painting or perhaps a poem? My memory is foggy.

If you’ve read Band of Brothers there’s one character that was known to have massacred some Germans right after D Day invasion. Major Winters wouldn’t let him escort German prisoners to the rear because of what might happen. It was better to let someone else escort prisoners.

War is bloody and dirty. Emotions run high. Your best friends die around you and suddenly the killing gets very personal. People do things they’d never normally do.

They need to find a way to keep cameras away from battlefields. Who ever filmed those guys peeing was incredibly stupid.

While I understand and agree with this statement, I also believe that killing your enemy is really quite enough. Urinating on dead people is just plain wrong. Period.

[Theophane]

They need to find a way to keep cameras away from battlefields. Who ever filmed those guys peeing was incredibly stupid.

Where is that person now, I wonder?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@aceplace57

Up until the recent century bodies were stripped on the battlefield. I think there’s a famous painting of dead Napoleonic troops stripped and nude on the battlefield. Everything got reused uniforms, boots, hats etc. IIRC it was a painting or perhaps a poem? My memory is foggy…

There are many Civil War accounts of Confederate troops stripping Union corpses of their brogans (boots), as they were always lacking shoes. Some photos of Union dead show them shoeless, as here: http://www.theatre.ubc.ca/fedoruk/naturalism/Gettysburg_dead.jpg

[chacoguy]

The very reason that the Confederates went into Gettysburg was shoes.

[Nava]

@Farmer_Jane

This thread reminded me of Indian scalping. It was another thing that some Native Americans did that white folk added to their long list of grievances.

Wasn’t that started by the whites, tho? I seem to recall it was during a war between the French and British, one of them started paying their native allies for blonde scapls as these were proof of having killed a white person, that is, one of the enemy.

[Toxylon]

Scalps have been taken in North America long before contact. But Europeans had their own scalping tradition going back at least 6000 years.

[Springtime_for_Spacers]

@aceplace57

Up until the recent century bodies were stripped on the battlefield. I think there’s a famous painting of dead Napoleonic troops stripped and nude on the battlefield. Everything got reused uniforms, boots, hats etc. IIRC it was a painting or perhaps a poem? My memory is foggy.

They even took their teeth – Waterloo teeth.

[md2000]

Simple logic - insulting an nemy is common - but once they are dead (or captive, bound and helpless) our cultural tradition rooted in fair play and chivalry (the strong give way to prove they are strong) says that insulting the helpless because they cannot fight back is cheap and cowardly. Perhaps some other cultures have a diferent view. The movie “Black Robe”, for example, explains the Indians’ torture as “it shows you are strong. If you are kind, it shows you are weak, and all your enemies will try harder to kill you.” The Maori, being constantly at war, had a similar attitude - always show you are strongest.

But basically from our POV, desecrating a helpless corpse is simply a cowardly insult, since it cannot fight back. However, it is human instinct to release frustrations, especially now that we can post the result on facebook.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@chacoguy

The very reason that the Confederates went into Gettysburg was shoes.

I’ve read and heard elsewhere (incl. from a licensed Gettysburg battlefield guide) that that’s not so: http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=75

[Francis_Vaughan]

An observation. The above points suggest a significant dichotomy in the attitudes to the fallen of the opposite side. The OP asked about desecration. Which is a violation of the sacred nature of something. Many of the examples above are not desecration, but in some ways the opposite, if rather extreme. Honouring the qualities of a fallen foe isn’t desecration. But pissing on a corpse is clearly not honouring them, but rather the more insidious action of dehumanising them. Dehumanising of the foe is a constant companion in war. And one of its most insidious risks. History shows that it is not far to go from dehumanising a group to the committing of inhuman acts. War crimes. Clearly, stressed, tired, and war weary soldiers are prone to bad behaviour. But this doesn’t mean that discipline is relaxed, and lack of discipline excused. A professional soldier in a modern army should be expected to reflect the mores of their parent country, and modern society has learnt that dehumanising anyone is not something that can be taken lightly. I would suggest that is is that understanding that leads to the taboo. And a rather recent understanding it is.

[handsomeharry]

@Francis_Vaughan

But pissing on a corpse is clearly not honouring them, but rather the more insidious action of dehumanising them. .

Perhaps they were preparing the corpse for burial using sterile liquids to prevent quick decomposition so that they could honor the fallen for a bit longer before interring it.
OK, maybe not…

[handsomeharry]

@Elendil_s_Heir

I’ve read and heard elsewhere (incl. from a licensed Gettysburg battlefield guide) that that’s not so: http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/ArticleView.cfm?AID=75

I don’t care what the site said, 2400 is not a metropolis. Then, or ever. And, by their own words, it wasn’t even one by their standards. Bite me, ehistory.osu.edu.