Aside from the money, your doing it under controlled conditions would open an entirely new branch of physics. Although you’re probably no Einstein, I suspect that your achievement would be as revolutionary to science as Einstein’s theories were, and I’m not exaggerating.
This is a phenomenon that scientists have not been able to observe under controlled conditions. You would be doing humanity a tremendous favor by allowing scientists to observe it–if you’re right.
If you’re wrong? Then you learn something new about the world. And isn’t that worth doing?
Regarding a water dowsing test, so as to be able to use the field more than once, lay it with some nice number of different pipes, 20 or so of them, zigging and zagging across one another (but always going downhill) to create unique courses across the field. Have them all surveyed and mapped, of course; you could even post the survey map publicly. Then, for each test, blow high-pressure air through them to clear them of residual water, then (secretly) turn on one randomly selected pipe. (You could of course start with a selected pipe on and flags posted for the ‘calibration’ run.)
Here’s one more reason: it would be something of a triumph for the board, regardless of the outcome - you’ve said you can do something that I think nearly everyone here would agree falls well within the definition of ‘paranormal’ set out by JREF (I say this to set it apart from Peter Morris’ effort, which almost nobody here agreed was a valid phenomenon/claim under the rules).
So consider the possibilities:
-You take up the challenge and succeed, But Randi weasels out of paying. I, and I think many people here, will back you in denouncing Randi as a fraud. A massive service to the fight against ignorance is won and you are promoted to board hero.
-You take up the challenge and succeed, and you get the million, and become a celebrity (if you want that) If you really can’t think of a use for the money, I’m sure we can all make some worthy suggestions.
-You take up the challenge and fail. You’re no worse off than at the moment. I don’t think anyone here will dance and sing ‘I told you so’. I’d like to think we’d salute you for seeing your convictions through.
ETA: (and with that, I’m going to stop indulging in this hijack)
I am alway suspicious of people who claim not to want large sums of money. Even Shaqulle O’Neal plays the lottery every week.
If *you *don’t want the money, surely someone you know needs it. Or someone you know of. Just pick up a newspaper. Give it to some poor disabled vet who is being denied his benefits. Or pick a family in the Ninth Ward.
I would feel morally obligated to claim the prize if it were in my power.
Fisha, sorry but I know you won’t do it, apply for the $1M that is. Because you know you would fail. You can repeat all the excuses you want, but unless you try it, you will never know you really can’t do it. I think you would rather think you can than be proven you can’t; even for a million. All of us that think you can’t will be proven right again by default. But don’t worry, Lekatt will always believe in you.
I don’t believe in dowsing for a second. I respect the work Randi and his foundation do to combat woo. I also believe the Million Dollar Challenge is next to worthless when it comes to challenging folk like Fisha, and I don’t blame Fisha one bit for not taking it (besides the fact that it is no longer open to the general public).
Suppose there were a Million Dollar Challenge for something I could do, like reciting the alphabet backwards or standing on one foot for a full minute. If anyone does it, they get a million dollars. In the many years it’s been available, no one has won the money, and in order to participate, I’d have to fill out a good bit of paperwork, complete preliminary interviews and tests, take time off work and travel at my own expense to the testing site, negotiate testing conditions, and perform to an agreed upon standard. Would I do it? Hell no! No matter how confident I may be in my backwards-alphabet-saying or one-foot-standing ability, I’m pretty sure I’m not the only, or even the best, backward-alphabet-reciter or one-foot-stander. If none of them could get the million, why would I go to a fair bit of trouble and expense to try it? It doesn’t matter how much I trust the challenge giver or how reasonable it sounds–it’s still a big investment on my part for something that sounds too good to be true and that no one else has been able to succeed at. I’d stay away if you offered a hundred bucks up front to apply. And unless Fisha thinks he’s the best or only dowser in the country, he should too.
I’ll tell you what. Next Dopefest around here, if someone brings me little flags and bets me $20 and bragging rights, we’ll devise some double blind test. I’ll go out in a field and have some fun, see what happens. Either I’ll look like a woo-woo delusional ass, or perhaps you guys will convince me to go public.
I’m watching the news right now and there is a Sheriff in Jacksonville NC who is declaring that he found the body of a murder victim on the property of a suspect… using a dowsing rod. He hasn’t started digging yet but he’s sure he’s found her.
Just had to throw it out for the entertainment value.
Oh, well that’s an easy one to test. We obviously need to start by burying several murdered bodies along with several live ones as a control in a field. . . .
Can’t remember the exact quote but the sherriff said he thought the suspect was on the run. He didn’t know where he was headed but he thought he might be in a hurry to get there. Sounded better when he said it.
Seriously because of a million bucks! Dont look on Randi’s challenge like being President of the United States, because its nothing like it. Being President of the United States entails a lot responsibilities, whereas if you won the money you would have none - just the chore about spending the money which is far less onerous, I think you would agree.
Think of another thing - even if you wanted to become the President of the United States it may not be an easy task for you (or for anyone for that matter I am not picking on you). For winning the prize on the other hand all you have to demonstrate is you can do what you claim you can do. No explanations are asked for. You said you dont need the million bucks (lucky you) but you would take it. Its yours for the taking.
Smithee the prize is not for reciting the alphabet backwards or standing on one foot, which require memory and muscle power/endurance respectively. Autisitc savants such as Daniel Tammet can, for example, can recall pi to 22,514 decimal places, which you might agree requires slightly more memory than reciting the alphabet backwards. It is only for paranormal phenomena, which have no scientific explanation. When I read Fisha’s post I thought was he was saying was that he could make an intelligent guess where cables are from reading a map and knowing where cables should be from where they are generally laid. If that is the case - then it is not paranormal. But then he went onto say something like - it’s pretty ordinary like picking up the phone to call someone, but it rings, and they’re calling you. Or looking at a cow and saying she’s going to calve before tomorrow. Guessing someone is going to ring you, would definitely be paranormal, whereas guessing when a pregnant cow is going to calve would not be.
You say that Randi’s challenge is something “that is too good to be true” (because) no one has ever won it. Thereby implying that it is a fraudulent offer. Have you ever considered the possibility that no one has ever won the prize because they have never been able to demonstrate any sort of paranormal power? There is plenty of information on Randi’s site about people who have tried to win the prize. You could investigate that and also ask Randi himself if you have any doubts.
I’m a skeptic to the bone, richnz. I’m absolutely positive that no one has won the prize because no one has ever demonstrated a paranormal ability. But someone who would take the challenge is someone who believes in paranormal abilities. And most people who believe in them seem to believe that they are relatively widespread, at least in a population the size of the US. If fisha believes that his power is unique or nearly so, then I would certainly expect him to try for the prize, but if he believes that dowsing is a perfectly ordinary ability that most people have never tried (which is the impression I got) then I wouldn’t expect him to be too excited about the prize. (Which he couldn’t win anyway, because as I said, no one has ever demonstrated a paranormal ability. Because paranormal abilities like dowsing don’t exist.)
Alan Smithee whether someone who believes in (his or her) paranormal power, also believes that their power is unique or not, is irrelevant. I dont see the logic of someone declining a million dollars (which I believe is still available) because they believe their power is perfectly ordinary (and thus presumably super-easy to collect).
This post is also to reply to tomndebb who closed my topic on “Designing a test for psychic urination” as he gave me no opportunity to reply to his question and statement (statements actually) that he put to me.
tomndebb you asked me a question and made some disparaging statements about my topic and then closed it with remarkable haste. Dont you think that you should have waited till I next logged on to give me an opportunity to reply?
Anyway I’ll do so now. This is what you wrote: “richnz, do you have a point to this? As a (poor) parody, it still appears to lack an actual point to debate.”
Do I have a point to this - yes and I shall tell you shortly and I have a few questions of my own.
It is a (poor) parody - according to you. Thank you for your kind comments, however this is just your opinion - no one else seems to have given an unfavourable opinion. To be fair to you they may not have had enough time. Then again, to be fair to me, someone may have given a favourable comment also but they may not have had enough time.
“it … appears to lack an actual point to debate.” Here I tend to agree with you, but then I am new to this board and I take my cues from what is posted here. I dont see any great difference between designing a test for psychic urination and designing a test for dowsing, which begs the question, why was I pulled whereas this particular one not?
While on this topic there are a few which may not quite be “discussions of the great questions of our time”. Would “Do Muslims party?” qualify as one of the great questions of our time I wonder? Let me hazard a guess though (on this question) while I’m about it. Many Muslims party like mad and drink like mad too - but then again it boils down to what is meant by Muslims, after all there are a few billion around. Partying in the western sense, like dancing in a disco, or party etc is frowned upon by the Islamic religion and you would probably not find Osama bin laden and his ilk jiving in a discotheque. They are more likely to gatecrash the party in a jumbo jet (and thereby party in a more pleasant place) - but I digress.
Back to my post - you claim that it is a parody- poor one at that - ouch! Parody of what exactly? I have reproduced, one of the claimants of the prizes, claims. Does it sound ridiculous to you? Thats not my fault. I didnt make the claim.
Which brings me finally to my point.(Do you have a point to this?). I do not think that debating ANY paranormal ability is one of the great questions of our time. If you read the claimants claims on James Randi’s website - they are hilarious. I have just reproduced one. But then again it may just be my quirky sense of humour. Then again, maybe others may find it funny too - who knows, give it a chance. I know you were not amused, but do you wish to impose your judgement on all who read these posts? sincerely yours - richnz
Contrapuntal is that better? I have posted on BBQ pit about tomndebb’s decision.
Alan Smithee whether someone who believes in (his or her) paranormal power, also believes that their power is unique or not, is irrelevant. I dont see the logic of someone declining a million dollars (which I believe is still available) because they believe their power is perfectly ordinary (and thus presumably super-easy to collect).
This post is also to reply to tomndebb who closed my topic on “Designing a test for psychic urination” as he gave me no opportunity to reply to his question and statement (statements actually) that he put to me.
tomndebb you asked me a question and made some disparaging statements about my topic and then closed it with remarkable haste. Dont you think that you should have waited till I next logged on to give me an opportunity to reply?
Anyway I’ll do so now. This is what you wrote: “richnz, do you have a point to this? As a (poor) parody, it still appears to lack an actual point to debate.”
Do I have a point to this - yes and I shall tell you shortly and I have a few questions of my own.
It is a (poor) parody - according to you. Thank you for your kind comments, however this is just your opinion - no one else seems to have given an unfavourable opinion. To be fair to you they may not have had enough time. Then again, to be fair to me, someone may have given a favourable comment also but they may not have had enough time.
“it … appears to lack an actual point to debate.” Here I tend to agree with you, but then I am new to this board and I take my cues from what is posted here. I dont see any great difference between designing a test for psychic urination and designing a test for dowsing, which begs the question, why was I pulled whereas this particular one not?
While on this topic there are a few which may not quite be “discussions of the great questions of our time”. Would “Do Muslims party?” qualify as one of the great questions of our time I wonder? Let me hazard a guess though (on this question) while I’m about it. Many Muslims party like mad and drink like mad too - but then again it boils down to what is meant by Muslims, after all there are a few billion around. Partying in the western sense, like dancing in a disco, or party etc is frowned upon by the Islamic religion and you would probably not find Osama bin laden and his ilk jiving in a discotheque. They are more likely to gatecrash the party in a jumbo jet (and thereby party in a more pleasant place) - but I digress.
Back to my post - you claim that it is a parody- poor one at that - ouch! Parody of what exactly? I have reproduced, one of the claimants of the prizes, claims. Does it sound ridiculous to you? Thats not my fault. I didnt make the claim.
Which brings me finally to my point.(Do you have a point to this?). I do not think that debating ANY paranormal ability is one of the great questions of our time. If you read the claimants claims on James Randi’s website - they are hilarious. I have just reproduced one. But then again it may just be my quirky sense of humour. Then again, maybe others may find it funny too - who knows, give it a chance. I know you were not amused, but do you wish to impose your judgement on all who read these posts? sincerely yours - richnz