Does dowsing for water really work?

Cecil, I really must take exception to some of your comments in the dowsing article (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_168.html).

You make the rather strained statement that “Any of four minor muscle movements will result in the stick taking a sudden lurch downward” – actually the stick/wire/whatever is held in such a way that any relaxation will point it skywards. That’s the “peculiar grip with both hands” you mentioned. This grip is designed purely to eliminate the error you think occurs: being a minor dowser myself, I can assure you that holding the wire this way demands a massive effort, and the “minor muscle movements” simply do not point it earthwards.

You are correct in your claims that many diviners miss their target. Not everyone can do it, though many hang out shingles. I advise anybody interested in employing diviners to find three or four from outside the area, preferably from out-of-state.

Far be it from me to blow my own trumpet, but I can claim an almost zero practical knowledge of geology.

How does divining work? I have no idea. I feel no tingles, develop no aura (well, nobody has commented on it) and enjoy/suffer no visions – and cannabis makes me puke. All I can say is that when that wire (forked sticks are sooo gauche!) pulls downward, there’s water there. I have no control over the process: remember my hands are straining to point the wire UPwards. Sometimes the wire (10 gauge steel fencing) bends.

May the force be with you.


MOD NOTE (12-Mar-2013) - Be aware that this thread is from 2003, revived today in Post #158 on page 4 – CKDH

Here is another article on dowsing

Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, gordon451.

gordon – if you can really divine the location of water, go and get the $1,000,000 from the Amazing Randi. Read the article that Meatros refers to and follow the link to the Amazing Randi – there’s even more money you can get from folks in India and Australia. Let us know how you do.

BTW, I have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing with your riches. It connects Manhattan to Brooklyn and gets lots of traffic. Also, there’s some land in Florida I have available.

Even the U.S. military has fallen for this scam. They are/were teaching soldiers dowsing as a survival skill. It made me lose some of my respect for the military.

http://www.canadiandowsers.org/Article_Walt1.html
http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/mystic/DOWSING1.HTM

Well, sure, anybody can SAY it. But is it true? And is there water only where your stick dipped, and not anywhere else nearby? Tall claims unless you have a drilling rig standing by to check. And until you check, it sounds like just a hopeful guess to me.

James Randi has done double-blinded tests of multiple dowsers on at least two occasions, I believe, details of which you can find on his web site. All the dowsers tested claimed they could trace the source of a small underground pipe network. 100% failed. Most didn’t even come close. All claimed (before the test) that conditions were satisfactory, ideal, and they could perform. Most claimed (after the test) that conditions were bad and something was “throwing them off,” as they had never failed before. I suggest they never had been tested under fair, unbiased conditions before.

If you can prove what you claim, $1 Mil US is waiting for you, and good luck! I’m sure US dollars can be converted into something useful in Australian currency, mate! :slight_smile:

I can sum up the OP in one sentence from the linked article:

Cecil’s re-release of his classic dowsing column reminded me of my introduction to this topic many years ago. I happened to pick up a book by the late, great American-history author, Kenneth Roberts (Boone Island, Northwest Passage) and began to read the story of Henry Gross, a retired Maine game warden who had considerable facility with the forked stick. Roberts, the consumate storyteller, wove an engrossing tale of a “folk talent,” ignored by scientists, but of immense potential value to the world if it could be harnessed.

After reading one book in the series, which I found very convincing, I began to think there might be some mysterious force that connected the mind of the dowser to flowing, underground water (Roberts was adamant that although Henry dabbled in locating lost dogs, oil, metal deposits, etc., only “flowing underground water” could be located accurately.) But I was puzzled about how Henry would “ask the rod” about depths and water quantities. Did the rod speak to him? Was it talking to him in his mind? Nothing seemed to make sense.

Then I located all three books Roberts wrote on this subject and found out that Henry would literally ask by speaking out loud, a question like “Is there potable water below this spot?” and the rod would dip for Yes, and not dip for No. He could also ask a series of questions like,

“Is it 10 feet down to the top of the vein?” No dip.

“Is it 20 feet?” Dip.

“Is it 15 feet?” No dip.

“Is it 16 feet?” Dip. “So water could be expected at about 16 feet,” said Henry.

Whoa! Suddenly we have crossed the line from an unknown physical force to psychic phenomena. And the “discovery” was made that Henry could draw a crude map on a scrap of paper, and holding the rod over it, ask the same questions. And the rod would answer. This saved an immense amount of travel time, of course, since some of their downing jobs were on other continents! Henry always recommended on-the-spot pinpointing, but the map became the first step.

Roberts & Gross formed a company, Water Unlimited, to provide dowsing services for a fee. The books document many adventures, successful and otherwise, but are told in such a way that it is hard to question the basic premise that dowsing works.

I am in no way saying that Roberts has proved that it works. But I find it fascinating that such a convincing (and entertaining!) story can be told. I’m sure many readers with less knowledge of science and human nature have been convinced, and I recommend reading these books as a case study in the practical application of just such topics.

Roberts, while respected as an historical fiction author, was widely thought to have gone off the deep end in his old age, as he made the Water Unlimited dowsing company his full-time project and crusade until his death (ca. 1960?).

Unfortunately, all books are out of print. A quick search on Amazon did not turn up any, although out-of-print sources may work. Here’s a list of them:
[ul][li]Book 0: The Kenneth Roberts Reader. Only one chapter is devoted to Henry Gross, but it serves as an introduction when Kenneth Roberts first hires dowsers to help locate water on his Maine farm and they pique his curiosity.[/li][li]Book 1: Henry Gross and His Dowsing Rod.[/li][li]Book 2: Water Unlimited. A case-by-case story of the company’s adventures, mostly “successful” ones, although failures are mentioned and analyzed.[/li][li]Book 3: The Seventh Sense. Continuation of book 2. (There are at least 8 books with the same title shown on Amazon, so don’t be misled if Roberts is not the author.)[/ul][/li]As a side subject, Roberts and University of Oregon Professor Ray Hyman got into a pissing contest about dowsing. Hyman, who is still alive, wrote a (ca. 1940’s) book, “Water Witching USA,” that was quite skeptical. Roberts though Hyman to be hopelessly deluded.

And, Gordon451, Roberts mentions the “Official Dowser” for Australia, a government position then held by Evelyn Penrose, who used a pendulum for most of her work. I wonder if that position still exists?

I didn’t particularly believe in dowsing before I experienced it myself. I went over to my dad’s house a few years ago and he was telling me about how he met a guy who pumped septic tanks and used a dowsing rod to find the access hatches.

My dad had been messing around with a dowsing rod himself and he showed me how to hold it and had me walk the length of his house looking for his water line. I walked slowly along and suddenly the rod pulled dramatically towards the ground. It was really surprising. I could back up and walk forward again and it pulled down in the same spot again. The pulling was a really weird feeling, almost like a magnetic force.

I dont’ know whether the rod is attracted to some sort of field that water generates, or maybe humans can naturally detect water and just don’t know it, or can’t do it without a rod.

There’s definitely something to it, try it yourself and you’ll be surprised how the thing pulls downwards.

I have no talent, psychic or otherwise, when it comes to plumbing, but I’ve “found” pipes in my yard with two wires held loosely. And I’m sure that many of the teeming millions could, too. …And you can do it at home! Take your two wires (My method), or forked wood, or whatever and slowly move it over your sleeping CAT! It’ll react!! try it!! I couldn’t tell you how far down, or what, even, is actually there, but them things do SOMETHIN’ I guarentee!

Have someone design a blind test for you, and you’ll find your talent for finding water will disappear. Sorry folks, it’s been tested and tested, and dowsing dosn’t work.

My test was a blind test, I had no idea where his water line was.

Have you tried it Telemark? First hand experience is a strong argument.

A question for all the dowsers out there. What is going through your mind as you are dowsing?

Are you in deep concentration, thinking about holding the stick (wire), trying to expand your thoughts, or what?

As for Cecils take on it, if current science can’t prove it Cecil does not believe it. If Cecil was alive 1000 yrs ago he would be saying the earth is flat and is the center of the universe.

Is it just possible that sight is needed in some way to dowse? Have there ever been blind dowsers?

I was just walking slowly and concentrating on the rod. It worked for me the first time, I didn’t have to concentrate hard or anything.

As for your second question, I wouldn’t think that sight would have anything to do with it. If there are forces at work, they’re probably not related to light, probably electromagnetism. Where I did it was a gravel driveway, and the part that the water line goes under looks no different than the rest.

James Randi says dowsers are some of the most self deluded individuals, and when tested they never perform better than random chance.

No one has even passed preliminary testing. All act confused when failing miserably and never return.

Independent testers run the tests.

If you don’t pop in to www.randi.org, then you aren’t serious about learning about dowsing.

Visit www.skepdic.com as well.

Well Cecil doesn’t know everything and James Raandi doesn’t know everything and I don’t know everything. I just know that it worked for me when I tried it, and it was almost alarming how much the rod pulled. I encourage everyone to just try it, it’s a very interesting experience regardless.

I suggest dowsers might have great success with large diameter wooden poles used as a deep suppository.
:wally

The “force” you felt was ideomotor action, it isn’t related to any water, electromagnetic forces, or the phases of the moon. It has been well studied and detailed.

You want to believe it works. How did you test that it really worked? Were you at all familiar with the area where you were dousing? Were there other queues as to where it was. Did you try finding water elsewhere? Did you dig to test whether there was water where it was indicated?

What you experienced wasn’t a blind test, but an incident. If you are willing to subject yourself to a true blind test (designed by someone else, in an area you aren’t familiar, with verifiable results) I have extreme confidence that you will not get the same results. Many have tried, all have failed.

I’m brand new to the board - but an avid reader. I felt compelled to write on this one, I was a long time believer in dowsing, now my head screams NO, but… Here’s my story:

My first exposure was during early high school when we did an experiment in Science class, our teacher paired students up for a mystery “experiment”. There was about 15 pairs who were each were assigned a “yard line” to walk across the width of the football field. One with bent coat hangers and the other noting how far from the sideline the coat hangers crossed. For example as I walked along the 10yd line, my coat hangers crossed about 20yds from the sideline. That was it. We were told nothing about what we were doing or why, only that it was “an experiment”. At this point I had not even heard of dowsing. The teacher was NOT outside during the experiment. All we did was come back in as soon as we marked where out rods crossed. No discussion - the whole thing took about 10 minutes.

In the class the teacher had drawn a small version of the football field on the board. We marked on the appropriate yard line when our rods crossed.

There was a pattern to the marks, an “S” shape starting about 5 yds from the “top left” of the field as we faced it and then slowly meanderng down to about 5 yds from 10yd line at the bottom right.

The teacher then explained to us that we had “dowsed” and “detected” an underground stream that ran 30ft below the football field. He then pulled out a survey map of the neighborhood that clearly showed the stream. The pattern was not 100% exact, but it was very very close. he then proceded to explain to us the “science” of dowsing - the “electrical field created by moving water” mumbo jumbo. This was kind of our introduction to magnetism and electricity.

We walked away thinking this was a proven scientific fact. I was definitely at an impressionable age, but it’s pretty hard to shake that “proof”. I’d love to get some thoughts. I am a major sceptic (and huge fan of Randi). I mentioned this last year to a sceptical friend of mine last year, in the context of dowsing being a proven fact and he just about killed me.

Sorry for the long winded first post.