So let’s say I find myself in the company of someone I know has an active warrant (for drug stuff, parole violations, etc.) and I’d be very interested in handing him over to the local constabulary. Now this guy isn’t too keen on sticking around, especially if he works out I’m getting the 911 people on the phone, but I really want him in custody.
What are my obligations to facilitate his arrest? And how far can I go in detaining him while the cops make their way to us? Presumably, killing him is too much, and harsh language isn’t enough, but can I tie him up? Can I fight to subdue/incapacitate him if he gets physical with me?
You have no obligation to facilitate his arrest, beyond not lying to LEOs if they question you about him. The existence of a warrant is basically irrelevant to what you do; in general warrants are written to allow an LEO to affect an arrest, they don’t authorize a non-LEO to do anything. Citizen’s arrests and detentions are typically only an option for crimes committed in your presence. What force you can use to detain someone depends almost entirely on state and local law and what crime you witnessed him to commit (especially if it’s a misdemeanor, felony, or violent felony). Often ‘harsh language’ is actually the only force you’re allowed to use, especially if there is no felony committed in your presence. You should talk to a local lawyer who practices criminal law before trying to use force to detain someone, it’s very likely you’re committing a crime, possibly a felony (especially restraining someone), and may well be making any attack he commits on you qualify as self-defense.
I would think that if you catch someone in the act of a crime harming someone, you could detain him. Just knowing he has an outstanding warrant, heck no. And how would you know the warrant is active? Maybe he presented himself to the court and they released him yesterday.
If you’re around someone once and find out that information, it is very often an extremely bad idea to get involved. If they get released on bond or have friends, congratulations, you’ve just painted a target on your back.
If you know this person is regularly in a public place at a certain time, then an anonymous tip to the police as to this fact is a much better solution.
[anecdote]
While at a friend’s house in preparation for moving him and his child to another city, my friend’s estranged wife (first wife, not the mother of his child) pulled up outside of the house and started honking the horn and cursing at him. Friend said she was violating a court order by coming here, asked me to record the incident through a window from inside the house. He then called the police and explained the situation. Against their specific instructions, he went out to confront his ex. Without saying a word, he marched past her, grabbed the keys out of her car’s ignition and proceeded to throw them somewhere into the next city block in order to keep her from leaving.
Police show up before friend can make it back into the house, pull the two of them apart and demand explanations. Friend demands police arrest Ex for violating protection order. Ex demands police arrest Friend for tamping with car. After reviewing my recording, police arrest both Ex and Friend for public disturbance and general asshattishness.
I have no clue what happened to Ex. Friend wanted me to pay his bail but I refused, He found someone else to pay it and was on the street by noon the next day. Friend was also moved out of town within three hours and I wasn’t sorry to see him go.
Moral of the story - Be a witness but don’t try to do the PDs job.
[/anecdote]
Inigo Montoya: I think you trust this criminal way too much. Trusting a criminal to “leave you out of this” is I think the big thing. He may be an idiot, but he’s no fool, and it’s extremely likely that he knows numerous ways for himself to retaliate, perhaps instantly in that moment, that you haven’t considered.
Yeah, my post just commenting on the legal side, on the practical side you’re picking a fight with someone who doesn’t mind committing significant crimes. Calling in a tip to the cops is one thing, but trying to fight the guy and detain him when you don’t know what’s legal and the cops might not even come out (arrest warrants, especially minor ones from another jurisdiction, often aren’t a priority).
And like I said before, if you use force in a way that isn’t considered justified, then you’ve started a fight with someone, and HE can argue self-defense for anything he does for you. Trying to play hero and enforce an arrest warrant (that may not even be active, and certainly isn’t valid for you) without knowing what you’re doing can easily end up with you beaten up, in jail, and a target for a criminal. I’m not saying that you have to throw up your hands and do nothing, just that trying to arrest the guy yourself can end very badly for the wannabe cop if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Thanks for the responses. Nothing really surprising, but I tend to get lost if I try to work out these sorts of things in a vacuum (and my mind houses a considerable vacuum).
There is, of course, a much broader real life situation which makes suggestions like “Trying to play hero” extremely unpalatable. I forgive the use because I’ve not provided details, but I’d like it to be known I am motivated in this case by nothing so noble as heroics. I am not aggressive by nature and can at least empathize with a wide variety of questionable mindsets. But this cat has created a situation where I could easily be tempted to trash my life in exchange for his. Naturally, I’d prefer a more prudent solution, hence this thread.
