I love it. Funny how I always get in trouble when I begin a sentence with these two words! :dubious:
You tell me. If you don’t think there’s something basic, lacking in a person’s character that assumes that based solely on the color of the skin of another person, that the person is unqualified for their job that they have, then I don’t doubt you have no shame.
Now for the caveat, I’m not saying that AA means unqualified, I’m responding to Stephe96 assumption that this woman, because she was black and screwed up, must be a product of AA and therefor unqualified for her job.
Christ, what a wordy Wharton. All I’m blaming you for is pretending that Stepe96 wasn’t deliberately race-baiting when he suggested that the operator’s blackness and incompetence had to be related, because he admittedly couldn’t fathom any other explanation. Despite your politics, there was no reason for you to be that damned obtuse.
I never said “unqualified.” I said that there might have been others *more * qualified. Look, it’s really simple. You either hire the most qualified person for a position or you don’t. If it can be shown that there were other, more qualified people for this position, I think that could be relevant in this case. (But as I’ve already said, since she was hired 30 years ago I hardly think AA is a factor here. And by the way, I haven’t said word one about skin color). What if it was your mother lying dead on the floor, and you find out later the job went to a less-qualified candidate? I’d be pretty pissed, I’m sure.
Kindly point out anywhere in my posts where I’ve “admitted” that I couldn’t “fathom” any other explanation than “blackness” an d"incompetence."
I’ll wait…
…
Isn’t AA for women too?
Duffer tells us that the operator was black.
Your response to that information is ask whether or not, she was an Affirmative Action hire.
Dude, own up to it.
If you actually read what you’re posting, I’m pretty much eliminating AA and incompetence from the equation. The woman had 30 years experience. She screwed up huge. Something else must’ve happened here.
Trust me, with the steadiness of that limb, you could rebuild all the burnt buildings in Detroit.
I’ve seen Roger and Me. It was right around the time I saw Canadian Bacon. Which, much to my chagrin, is one one of my favorite films. The latter is friggin’ hilarious. The former? Meh. There was a lot of factual stuff left out, or “missed”, such as the cost of each and every GM auto that goes to the unions, versus the amount of a Honda or Toyota that goes to the union. It’s been since shown the actual cost of a car incurred by the union in each case makes GM and Ford autos more expensive than the Japanese counterparts.
(I’ll be asked for a cite, and I’ll have to dig through Newsweek articles, just not gonna do it now. Maybe a more enterprising soul will beat me to it.)
Add to that at reported plan Ford or GM has to basically pay off union workers to get them off the weekly payroll.
The unions control a lot of the influence in GM looking at bankruptcy. The unions won’t bend in the fight to save the plants. Moore never showed that side of it. And it’s been happening for the more than 10 years since that film was released.
I’m sure Delphi is a sore spot in his mind, as well. Hell, it may be reason for a sequel. But it’s the union working for a company that is supporting them while going under and being bullied into keeping up the wages and benefits for the union. And the union demanding more and more money and better benefits to help the company keep sinking further.
And Delphi supplies GM, controlled by the same unions that are threatening to shut down Delphi. Delphi shuts down, GM shuts down. Win-win, I guess.
Here’s a question. Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Toyota. Know what they have in common with Detroit? The UAW. I have made no bones about my inherent distrust of unions, but they aren’t inherently bad. Sometimes they can get it right.
Know what else is common in those plants? None are in Detroit. Moore’s film is as relevant to the auto industry as I am to tampon design.
Moore has shown again and again that he can spin anything more than a White House Press Secretary (no matter the Administration). His films are less than relevant in any real world application.
I thought I made it clear in that response he was wrong in focusing on race. I was trying to do so in a way you apparently don’t approve. I leave the reigns to you to steer us clear of conflict and lead us to peace.
I apologize for missing your rules of engagement.
And, if I may step out of line for a moment, go fuck yourself for attributing this shit to me. Blame me for whatever you want. It doesn’t make it valid. You may as well blame me for fucking my Pugs if you’re going that far out.
And then went out of your way to prematurely second-guess anyone to might want to take Occam’s Razor to his irrelavant speculation:
They said on the news that the family is thinking about filing a lawsuit. Well, I hope they do!
You’re all making good points about making mistakes on the job and making MISTAKES on the job. I can’t help but think that there must be more to this than we’re being told, because what we’re being told adds up to a big, steaming pile of fatal incompetence and glossing over fatal incompetence, and it makes no logical sense.
Throw around whatever term you never knew existed before joining a message board. Doesn’t apply in any way to what I’ve said here.
Personally, I think the woman should be responsible for any therapy bills this kid will incur. A 6 year old makes 2 calls to 911 while his mother is laying dead in the kitchen? And this cunt dismisses it because an adult won’t pick up the phone?
What is the term used for a 911 operator so stressed she can be forgiven not sending a squad car immediately?
What is the term for a 911 operator that doesn’t do his/her job?
What is the condition that would prevent someone with the responsibility of answering 911 calls to tell someone to call back later?
What is the condition that would prevent that same operator from caling the number (always on record) 10 minutes later just to make sure it was a crank call?
What is the condition of a 911 operator that gets a call like this and doesn’t follow up in any way?
What is the condition of a 911 operator that takes a second call from the same person (6 years old) for the same issue and doesn’t do anything about it.
Most important, what condition do you have to not see this as a problem? What condition do you have that makes me the bad guy in this?
I dunno. I once heard a 911 call where a gentleman called to request an ambulance because his MIL was having a heart attack. The operator, IIRC was a nurse, and instead of getting the necessary info, dispatching help and then giving the caller advice on what to do while waiting for the ambulance, refused to do anything until the man put his MIL on the phone. He kept explaining to her that his MIL was incapable of speaking, that she was having a heart attack, and to please send someone immediately. The last words he said were, “Well she’s dead, would you please send someone now to pick her up?” At first the city/911 service refused to punish the woman, it wasn’t until lawsuits were filed and the national media aired the story that the woman was first demoted, then she was fired.
Shit like this isn’t supposed to happen, but obviously does and I’ve got no problem with releasing the lawyers on such matters. Too many bean counters worry about short term costs while forgetting long term consequences and if it takes a multimillion dollar judgement to wake them up, well, then, that’s the price we have to pay (though personally, I think that the death penalty isn’t too harsh in such a situation).
How about “vastly overworked and understaffed” 911 call center?
Which I understand is true not only of the 911 center, but many other municipal services in Detroit.
The ‘bad guy’ would seem to be the financial situation that has left such emergency services so underfunded that people are overworked and stressed out like this. And then to blaming the front-line workers who have to deal with this all the time.
I certainly agree that this operator was rude and uncooperative with this kid.
But to be contrary, lets look at some of the facts that have come out from the investigation of this.
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The mother did NOT die because of the operators action.
The cause of death was complications of a chronic enlarged heart condition.
So even if paramedics had been around the corner and responded within 30 seconds, it’s unlikely that they would have been able to do anything to relieve her condition. Her medical doctors had been treating it for years, and were not able to cure it, after all. -
According to the boy’s statement (and also on the recording), the operator said that she WAS going to send police to the home. And apparently she DID – they arrived, and there is no record of any other calls to 911. And the officers indicated that they were dispatched from that call.
[It’s true that they arrived quite a while later. But that may go back to the financial situation of the City of Detroit. How busy are police squads in Detroit on a holiday weekend?]
To me, it seems that she made some mistakes on this call:
- being rude & unpleasant to this kid. (Not unknown in phone operators.)
- hanging up rather than staying on the line until police arrived. (But how many other 911 calls would have gone unanswered had she done this?)
- classifying this as a prank call, and indicating that on her dispatch log (thus resulting in it being given a low priority by responding police).
But none of these had serious consequences for the case!
So I would say the appropriate consequences for her would be a reprimand and some required retraining. But her actions did not change what happened, and so some of the suggestions from people her, like fire her, sue her for everything she has, hire a 300-pound guy to beat her up, etc. seem to be rather overreacting.
I really think we’re looking at the same problem with the same anger but through different lenses. I’m looking through the right lens, your looking through the left lens. But we’re both wearing the same pair of glasses.
The 911 center, and by default the PD, FD, Sheriff’s Dept, and EMS services, are overwhelmed with the calls every night in the city of Detroit.
Detroit has year by year been sinking in stature as a place where people want to live. And it’s depressing. It was once a great city that people were proud to live in. It was a city people had no reservations in moving to. Now? It’s a city people hope to leave to get to the 'burbs. Dearborn is the new Detroit. Or Pontiac. Hell, Ann Arbor is a reasonable choice. I know a few people that live in Jackson and commute just to stay the hell away from Detroit.
It’s pathetic, and it pisses me off because Detroit was once a great city people wanted to move to. I don’t have any answers for Detroit. It’s not my responsibility to make Detroit a place people want to live in. I just hope somehow someway the city gets somebody with enough smarts to start to rebuild it to what it what was.
And running a 911 center that fires people like the woman in the OP would be a good start.
t-bonham@scc.net- curing the lady’s chronic heart condition is different from treating the cardiogenic shock which probably preceeded her death. Just because you can’t cure one condition, doesn’t meant you shouldn’t or couldn’t attempt to treat another.
It is possible that oxygen, diuretics and drugs to make her heart contract more strongly could have saved her, at least for a little longer, so that she could have died with dignity and her family around her, rather than on the floor, with just her 6-year old son alone in the house with her body for several hours.
It’s not just about when we die, it’s about how we die, and that was not a good death.
Geeze, you must have a different definition of “serious consequences.” A six-year-old child had his pleas for help dismissed not once but twice, and as a result was left alone in the house for three hours with his mother lying dead on the floor.
God only knows if this will fuck the boy up and cause longterm damage, but it sure as hell wouldn’t be a surprise if he ends up with major guilt and authority issues.
It’s heart-breaking. I’m not saying “hang the bitch,” but the anger expressed in the thread seems pretty justified, considering.