The Charles Ramsey 911 Call - Why the hate for the dispatcher?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I thought this merited a thread by itself because its not really about the kidnapping itself.

There are several different versions of the 911 call made by Charles Ramsey on youtube of which one is below:

The common thread is that people are saying how unpleasant, incompetent and arrogant the dispatcher was with people even saying he should be fired. Personally I’m not seeing it at all, he remained calm and tried to get the relevant information from someone who was somewhat incoherent (if entertaining!) before sending a callsign. I think people are looking at it too much with the benefit of hindsight, the dispatcher didn’t know whether or not it was a genuine call.

2

I wasn’t aware 911 had to be nice. I’d rather they were complete assholes but did a great job.

Meanwhile Ramsay said “I knew something was wrong when a little, pretty white girl ran into a black man’s arms. Something is wrong here. Dead giveaway.”
Black people - always saying stupid shit and screwing it up for other black people.

3

The female dispatcher that was talking to Amanda Berry, finally understood she was on the line with the person kidnapped 10 yrs ago. Then, Amanda clearly states her kidnapper is not home, but is returning in just a few minutes from the neighborhood McDonalds.

The dispatcher then, amazingly, tells Amanda to wait for police to arrive, then hangs up on her!

It took police 8 minutes to arrive.

What if her kidnapper, And/or his armed accomplice brothers, returned home in 2 minutes?

4

The world is full of Monday-morning quarterbacks. Isn’t it amazing how hindsight makes it so clear how something should have been handled? It doesn’t matter how things look to you in the midst of whatever is happening because your decision at the time obviously should have been <insert after-the-fact-analysis here> and the fact that you didn’t see it proves you aren’t worthy of any accolades or attention. :rolleyes:

Some people are idiots. Sadly, those seem to be the ones who we’re always hearing from in the wake of, well, anything…

5

There is a huge difference between being a Monday morning quarterback, and a police dispatcher who failed miserably to follow her training procedures. In fact, there have been numerous documented (all 911 calls are recorded) cases of police dispatchers fired, and even the police departments sued, due to gross negligence on the dispatchers part.
The real idiots are those who refuse to acknowledge blatant failure to follow protocol, and let history repeat itself. Not pointing fingers, but if the shoe fits…
Would you like me to cite actual cases where police dispatchers blundered magnificently and were terminated? Such as the Indianapolis PD dispatcher who tipped off her friends that SWAT was about to execute a raid on their house. IPD detective Jack Orberg was shot and killed as he walked up to the door. He was to retire that month. I was a very vocal Monday morning quarterback then as well. The dispatcher is still in prison.

6

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/03/18/boston_police_dispatcher_unit_plagued_by_problems_mistakes/

http://www.emergencydispatch.org/articles/dispatchdisasters1.htm

One in 5 calls to Denver 911 are not handled correctly, per above audit. These are cases where a real emergency was not treated as one. Only an IDIOT would accuse Denver PD Internal Affairs of being “Monday morning quarterbacks” for performing this very critical audit, and taking corrective actions based on the miserable results.

7

I’ve heard that call as well and while I have a lot of sympathy for dispatchers as they do a difficult job I wasn’t impressed.

I was talking about the dispatcher who answered Charles Ramseys call, as far as I can see he didn’t do much wrong but he’s getting a lot of negative comments directed towards him.

8

Caller: Help me. I’m Amanda Berry.

Dispatcher: You need police, fire, ambulance?

Caller: I need police.

Dispatcher: OK, and what’s going on there?

Caller: I’ve been kidnapped and I’ve been missing for 10 years, and I’m, I’m here, I’m free now.

Dispatcher: OK, and what’s your address?

Caller: 2207 Seymour Avenue.

Dispatcher: 2207 Seymour. Looks like you’re calling me from 2210.

Caller: Huh?

Dispatcher: Looks like you’re calling me from 2210.

Caller: I can’t hear you.

Dispatcher: Looks like you’re calling me from 2210 Seymour.

Caller: I’m across the street; I’m using the phone.

Dispatcher: OK, stay there with those neighbors. Talk to police when they get there.

Caller: (Crying)

Dispatcher: OK, talk to police when they get there.

Caller: OK. Hello?

Dispatcher: OK, talk to the police when they get there.

Caller: OK (unintelligible).

Dispatcher:** We’re going to send them as soon as we get a car open.**

Caller: No, I need them now before he gets back.

Dispatcher: All right; we’re sending them, OK?

Caller: OK, I mean, like …

Dispatcher: Who’s the guy you’re trying – who’s the guy who went out?

Caller: Um, his name is Ariel Castro.

Dispatcher: OK. How old is he?

Caller: He’s like 52.

Dispatcher: And, uh -

Caller: I’m Amanda Berry. I’ve been on the news for the last 10 years.

Dispatcher: I got, I got that, dear. (Unintelligible) And, you say, what was his name again?

Caller: Uh, Ariel Castro.

Dispatcher: And is he white, black or Hispanic?

Caller: Uh, Hispanic.

Dispatcher: What’s he wearing?

Caller (agitated): I don’t know, 'cause he’s not here right now. That’s why I ran away.

Dispatcher: When he left, what was he wearing?

Caller: Who knows (unintelligible).

Dispatcher: The police are on their way; talk to them when they get there.

Caller: Huh? I – OK.

Dispatcher:** I told you they’re on their way; talk to them when they get there, OK**.

Caller: All right, OK. Bye.

***** End of call with female dispatcher*****

The police arrived 8 minutes later. Had the female dispatcher remained on the line, Amanda would have been able to tell her there were 2 other female hostages, as well as 2 children, as well other little tidbits like the kidnapper had 2 brothers, by name, who were also involved.

Anyone defending this 911 dispatcher is an idiot.

Period.

PS colossal blunder # 2:

Dispatcher: We’re going to send them as soon as we get a car open.
“As soon as we get a car open!!!”

9

Cougar58, you are talking about a different call than the one in the OP. As the OP made explicitly clear in his last post, posted 15 minutes before yours.

10

In fact, it seems Cleveland PD Internal Affairs agrees with this Monday morning quaterback “idiot” (moi):

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/state/dispatcher-who-took-911-call-from-missing-cleveland-woman-amanda-berry-under-review

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland officials are reviewing the actions of the 911 dispatcher who took Amanda Berry’s call.

The call-taker asked the name of Berry’s captor, as well as his age and ethnicity. But multiple times the dispatcher’s response was “Talk to the police when they get there.”

“While the call-taker complied with policies and procedures which enabled a very fast response by police, we have noted some concerns which will be the focus of our review, including the call-taker’s failure to remain on the line with Ms. Berry until police arrived on scene,” Flask said in a statement on Tuesday.
Flask said they will investigate the call and correction action will be taken.

I love the fresh smell of exoneration in the morning.

11

I don’t see anything in your quote about the dispatcher who talked to Ramsey.

12

The OP actually states:

“There are several different versions of the 911 call made by Charles Ramsey on youtube of which one is below”

The call with Amanda Berry originated by Charles Ramsey - he handed his cell phone to Amanda Berry on the 2nd call to 911, so that would be one of “several versions of the 911 call** made by Charles Ramsey**”.

13

The female dispatcher initially talked to Charles Ramsey, then he gave his cell phone to Amanda Berry to talk to the dispatcher.

Therefore, the dispatcher I referenced, also talked to Ramsey.

14

I’m specifically talking about the call where Charles Ramsey talked to the male dispatcher.

15

Fine. So I mistakenly reference the female 911 dispatcher call as well. However, it is clear that FairyChatMom’s reply, directly below and after mine, refers to me as an idiot for being a Monday morning quarterback.

IMHO, CPD Internal Affairs has a lot of spring cleaning to do in their 911 dispatch division, and I will Monday morning quarterback that both the male and the female dispatchers will soon be collecting unemployment checks…and if that makes me an “idiot”, judging from the CPD Internal Affairs acknowledgement, I am in good company. And if I were either dispatcher, I would keep an cardboard box near my desk, and keep my resume updated, and postpone that next major purchase or vacation.

16

I’m yet to understand this fascination with getting people fired when something happens people don’t like. In the case of the male dispatcher I’m not convinced he did anything wrong and in the case of the female dispatcher would a formal or informal word in her ear and warning to be more professional in future not be more appropriate than losing her job?

But people don’t seem to be satisfied unless they have a scalp to show for it, despite the fact its out of all proportion to the offence.

17

I’m not going to refer to you as an idiot, but you’re clearly not coming off as a genius here. It has been pointed out to you multiple times which call the OP is referring to, and you pig-headedly plow on with your own agenda, ignoring the bloody obvious.

It’s time you started getting the point.

18

I am a supervisor in a 9-1-1 center, but not in one related to this case. I have heard the call that cougar58 copied the transcript of above, but have not yet listened to the call the OP is referring to.

General Comments
A 9-1-1 call taker should ask certain basic information for ALL 9-1-1 calls and attempt to clarify any apparent discrepancies. These are the questions on the “All Caller’s Interrogation”. Local protocols may provide that some All Caller’s questions are optional. At my center the ACI questions include:
[ol][li]Where is help needed?[/li][li]What type of help (police, fire ambulance) is needed and why?[/li][li]What is the phone number you are calling from?[/li][li]What is your name? (optional)[/li][li]Is the incident in progress? [/li][li]Are there any injuries?[/ol][/li]
Even though these are ostensibly to be asked of all callers, some questions may not be relevant based upon information provided by the caller. Common sense should be used.

After the All Caller’s Interrogation, further incident specific questions are asked. 9-1-1 centers have a set of paper or electronic guides as to what questions should be asked and what protocols should be followed. There are guides specific to many common types of incidents (car accident, domestic violence, burglary in progress, etc…)

But occasionally something comes up that does not neatly and clearly fall into one of these categories. Questions from another incident type should be used instead, with a generous application of common sense. For example, we do not have a guide card specific to “Found Kidnapping Victim” but do have a guide for “Disturbance” that covers a lot of questions about the persons involved and safety of the parties.

The call cougar58 posted the transcript of

All Caller’s Interrogation
The call taker attempted to verify the address when an apparent discrepancy was noted. Good! :slight_smile:

The caller volunteered certain information (name and nature of incident). There is no need for the call taker to ask those questions again just to cover a check list.

The call taker did not verify the call back phone number! BAD! But I note one reality - publicly released tapes and/or transcripts will frequently edit out addresses and/or phone numbers. Clearly the address is revealed. The phone number may have been verified but edited from the tape for public release. There is enough uncertainty on that point that I could not possibly criticize the dispatcher… but his supervisor has access to the unedited tape and certainly could criticize!

There does not appear to be any assessment of injuries or need for medical attention! That is a WTF BAD!!! :smack:

Incident specific questioning
Note that these questions are to assist responding officers and do not take the police of a police interview. Most 9-1-1 operators are not police officers.

Names and descriptions of suspects, including direction and means of travel from an incident, are common lines of questioning and very relevant to this case. Some of these questions were asked, but it seemed like an afterthought. :eek:

There did not appear to be an assessment of the caller’s safety or inquiry into the safety of any other party involved in the incident. Such questioning could have revealed the existence of the other women being held if it was not otherwise known to the call taker. NOT GOOD! :frowning: %!@*(#$! :mad: If a call taker I supervise did something like this in less than extraordinary circumstances then disciplinary action would result.

as soon as we get a car open
The call taker told the caller that, “We’re going to send them as soon as we get a car open” and then later, “The police are on their way” :confused:

Despite public criticism I expect that was precisely in accordance with procedure. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER tell a caller police have been sent if they have not yet been notified. DO NOT make promises you cannot keep. This is drilled into a call taker during training. The call taker (person answering the phone) may be able to see that all officers appear to be engaged in calls. The call taker should not lie and say police are on the way until he knows officer(s) have been notified and are responding. The call taker appears to have done good in this regard. :slight_smile:

The call taker gathers information and passes it to a dispatcher (person working the radio) for action. Dispatchers can dispatch available units and divert responders from lower priority calls to higher priority calls. Dispatchers cannot make responders appear out of thin air. A dispatcher SHOULD divert officers, if necessary, to deal with a report of this nature. The dispatch seems to have been handled well within an acceptable time frame.:smiley:
It appears that the call taker did not stay on the line with the caller until responders arrived on scene. :mad: Whether this is proper depends upon local protocol but it is quite normal to stay on the call where the safety of the caller may be in doubt. Common sense applies and the totality of the circumstances must be considered (i.e may not be possible in a mass casualty event with more callers and injured/distressed persons than available call takers). If a call taker I supervise did something like this in less than extraordinary circumstances then disciplinary action would result.
I will try to listen to the call the OP posted about in this thread and do a critique later.

19

When protocol isn’t followed, and lives are put at risk, they should be fired.

A friend of mine was a pilot with NWA. He told me once how he had to report to tug driver for bumping into his airliner nose gear, while it was attempting to attach the tug to the nose to back the jet away from the gate. He said that was an automatic termination, even with NWA having a union.

PS the irony is, he later landed his 747 in Guam with the nose gear up (while the other 4 sets were down). The FAA report ruled pilot / SCO error. Theres a video of it on youtube -

The FAA report listing numerous pilot / SCO error in this crash landing, such as failure to expedite passenger evacuation (should be 90 seconds - watch the video and see its something like 10 minutes - during which time a fire broke out).

I have little sympathy for anyone who disregards established rules when lives are jeopardized.

Period.

20

I haven’t heard the Ramsey call, but the one with Amanda Berry was pretty much inexcusable. Berry stayed relatively calm (relative to other hysterical 911 calls that we’ve heard), explained everything clearly, and the 911 operator just seemed to have no sense of urgency or concern for her- it was like her break was coming up and she just wanted to get through the call and go have a cup of coffee.

Why not stay on the line with her? We’ve all heard better 911 operators keep the person on the line until the cops or firemen show up for lesser issues, but this woman seemed to want to get her off the phone way too fast.