My sister’s car is an Acura CL, probably a 1999 or 2000 model. Automatic transmission. About two months ago, she rear-ended somebody and messed up the whole front of the car. Took it to the shop, and it was on the knife’s edge of being totalled, but they decided to go ahead and repair it. The repair guy said that absolutely nothing behind the radiator was affected by the crash: it was almost totally cosmetic.
She got her car back yesterday, and it looks great, but is acting very funny (see below). She immediately drove it back to the repair shop, and they assured her that the problem was that the car had been sitting for two months, and “the fluids need to get all recirculated and stuff.” This sounded fishy to me (because the insurance would not pay more than 79% of the value of the car, the repair guys have an incentive to claim that something isn’t a problem when really it is). I had a chance to drive it this evening; its behavior is quite distressing, and sister says that it has not improved at all in the 30-or-so hours she’s had it.
Here’s the behavior: during acceleration, as you approach a shift point, the car suddenly acts as if you had slammed in the clutch. That is, if you maintain pressure on the accelerator, it revs way up while coasting. And then, after about two seconds, it jolts into the next gear. This happens between first and second, and between second and third. But NOT between third and fourth.
Should sister quit driving it immediately and demand another checkover by the repair guys? Is it a computer problem? A transmission problem?
I’m not sure if it’s a mechanical problem or an electronics problem, but it’s definitely a problem. Though I’m not a tranny specialist, I feel confident in saying that the “sitting” and “fluids need to get all recirculated” explanations are pure horsecrap. My suggestion is to have it evaluated by a competent transmission shop, preferably a member of ATRA (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association). Body shop personnel are not nearly as knowledgeable about the mechanical workings of cars as they’d like to think they are.
First thing I’d do is confirm that the transmission fluid level is correct. Just a WAG, but I’m guessing it’s low.
“Nothing behind the radiator was affected” - how about the radiator itself? I don’t know specifically about Acuras, but a lot of auto transmissions have a fluid cooler that’s in front of, under or even inside the radiator. If they had to take the radiator out, it’s entirely possible that some debris got into the fluid lines and may be causing the transmission problem.
If you’ve got an AAMCO or other transmission shop in the area that offers free diagnostics*, head on over, explain that the car was wrecked and repaired and let them see what’s going on. Could be nothing more than low on fluid, or it might need a fluid flush and new filter. With all of the computerized controls in cars these days, it could even be something as silly as a cable got knocked loose.
I just had a look, and sure enough, AAMCO’s got a coupon at their website for a free checkup.
What you’re describing is pretty much what’s happening in the transmission. An automatic trans has a series of planetary gearsets connected by a series of clutches. By engaging certain clutches and disengaging others, you obtain different overall gear ratios. Those clutches are actuated by hydraulic cylinders, the valves for which are in turn controlled by a computer.
When your car is shifting from one gear to the next, some clutches disengage, and others are supposed to engage after a very slight delay. It appears you’ve got a very long delay in engagement of the next set of clutches. Possible causes include dirt fouling the control valves, or simply a low transmission fluid level.
You may be able to check the fluid level yourself; check the owner’s manual to see if this is possible without special equipment (I have a vague recollection that this is possible on some, but not all, auto-trans cars). If you’re able to determine that the fluid level is low, check the owner’s manual to find out what kind of auto-trans fluid you need, buy some, and add slowly until you achieve normal level.
If that’s not it, then she needs to take it to a transmission shop - not the body shop - and let them diagnose the problem. If it’s found that this is related to crash damage (or something the body shop did), she should contact the insurance company for a claim amendment.
This should be dealt with soon, the sooner the better. She can continue to drive the car for the short term, but I would avoid rapid acceleration that would cause a more severe jolt during those slow shifts; that heavy jolt is analogous to popping the clutch on a manual-trans car, in that it causes heavy stress on the entire drivetrain.
Yes, that is the first thing that should be checked. I didn’t mention because I assumed even a body shop would know to do that. Possibly a bad assumption.
Good point.
…then keep in mind that they may be able to offer it for free because they oversell and overcharge. AAMCO does not have a sterling reputation in this regard. I’d make the effort to find a reputable independent transmission shop.
It’s possible on most, which simply have a dipstick to check fluid level. READ THE OWNER’S MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT PROCEDURE – it’s not the same on all cars. On some newer cars there is not an easy way for the owner to check it, however, and it should be done by a knowledgeable shop.
No doubts there. I just mentioned them because they’re pretty easy to find, and they claim ATRA certification. They may not be the best, but they’ll be worlds better than the tin beaters at AAAAA JoeBob’s Ding Poppers who may be barely able to navigate an engine oil dipstick
Seconded, IME body shops know how to deal with dents, putty, and paint, and know bupkis about anything mechanical. They even failed to weld replacement body panels into place properly the last time I had body work done. (yes, they made it right in the end)
It wouldn’t suprise me if they spilled a lot of transmission fluid between removing the old radiator, and getting the new one installed.
Also consult your owner’s manual for the correct procedure for checking the transmission fluid level. On cars I am familiar with this is usually done with the engine running and transmission in park, but might be different for your car, and might need to be done either hot or cold, as the fluid expands some when it gets hot. There may also be a recommended drive time/distance and re-check after you add fluid, as a low level may put a lot of air bubbles in the system that will cause the level to drop after they settle out.
For cars that have a cooler that is inside of the radiator, do they ever fail so the hydraulic fluid and engine coolant mix? I suppose that could happen and there could be zero visual indication of the failure.
I think a trans fluid cooling loop inside the radiator tank is pretty common; an external cooler is supplied only on vehicles expected to be used for towing heavy loads.
In any event, if the seal between coolant and trans fluid were breached, you’d soon end up with:
A) trans fluid in the coolant. It would float to the top, and you’d see a nice layer of froth when you open the radiator cap or peer into the overflow tank. trans fluid level would get low over time, and should show up on the trans dipstick (if your car has one). Coolant level would of course rise (more coolant in overflow tank).
Or…
B) coolant in the trans fluid. You’d notice the coolant level lowering over time, and the trans fluid level rising. You might not observe contamination on the trans fluid dipstick (if your car has one), since the coolant would sit at the bottom of the transmission, leaving the dipstick to be coated top to bottom with trans fluid. But the level would definitely go up.
Since the trans fluid line inside the radiator is just a low-pressure cooling loop, and the engine coolant is under a few psi when the engine gets up to temp, I’d expect B is the more likely scenario.
Hey all, this is Randy’s sister. Thanks for all the input. Here’s the update: I drove it up to an ATRA transmission place (thanks for the link, Gary) and they ran diagnostics on it. They said it was a converter clutch malfunction and that it was pretty silly to think it would improve by “letting the fluids circulate.” I called my insurance, and they said to take it back to the body shop. I called the body shop, and he basically said it was strange that it was a converter clutch problem since that’s internal and the exterior (of the transmission, I assume?) was not touched. I’m going to bring it back to the body shop in the morning and see what they say after they drive it around the block with me.
I’m a little nervous he’s going to try to convince me/the insurance company that this was not caused by the accident. Is there any way it wasn’t? It absolutely never did this before the accident, so I don’t know what other explanation there could be, but it would be convenient if I could be prepared with a defense if he tries to claim that. (I hope this doesn’t get messy, as this will push it over the edge of having been totalled.) I know absolutely nada about cars, so thanks again for making me feel less like a helpless damsel!
(By the way, it’s a '98 Acura 2.3 CL, and it was in the shop for one full month, not two. And I did check the trans fluid before I asked my brother about it [yes, I looked at the manual first], and it was marginal but fine.)
While the torque converter and its lock-up clutch are internal, the converter clutch is an electrically controlled device. There are external wires and connectors for it, which conceivably were affected by the accident or not properly hooked up in the repair process.
Well, sure, things break or wear out on their own, and there is such a thing as coincidence. However…
…while this does not conclusively prove it was related to the accident or accident repair, it certainly suggests it. It makes sense to approach it under the assumption it is accident-related. That assumption may have to be discarded if no corroborating evidence is found, and will have to be discarded if evidence to the contrary is found. But to dismiss the possibility of its being accident-related without investigating that avenue is wrong-headed, in my judgment.