Diagnostic labels as group membership. A sequel

Rather than bumping one of, for example the two threads below, I am opening a new thread to share an interesting bit in today’s NYT (gift link) on the subject.

Previous threads related:

The NYT piece:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/03/science/can-a-diagnosis-make-you-better.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qk8.AUYU.FKO--dzupWd1&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

I write this as someone who is responsible for attaching diagnostic labels to lots of kids, who observes lots of what I perceive as magical thinking that naming something gives us power over it, and who spends a fair amount of energy trying to frame the condition labels as very arbitrary things, not who or what a person is, just a limited shorthand communication tool, an aspect of a person at most. But I count myself among those who are concerned that the power of labels has downsides as well as upsides.

The article’s main thesis is the positive value of labeling. The relief that many experience to be able to give something a name:

While diagnosis can lead to concrete benefits like treatment and accommodations, its psychological benefit “seems to go beyond” either of these, said Dr. Aftab, a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University. It resembled the placebo effect — an improvement, generally attributed to positive expectation, that occurs after receiving an inert treatment, and which doctors have employed for centuries.

“To us, this is a version of the placebo effect that has gone, essentially, unnoticed,” Mr. Levinovitz said. “Here is this thing that is cross-cultural and trans-historical — the power of an official name to gain control over pathology of some kind — and it is almost entirely unstudied.”

Other researchers spotted this as well. When Cliodhna O’Connor’s research team at University College Dublin analyzed 1,848 accounts from adults who had received autism diagnoses, they found that the adults “overwhelmingly” reported that the benefits of diagnosis outweighed the costs. A word that came up frequently was “revelation.” Often, their only regret was that they had not been diagnosed earlier, sparing them years of feeling “wrong” or “broken.”

And the ability to find their people as helpful. Noted in those other threads.

Most importantly, she plunged into a local neurodiversity and autism support group. Her new community supported her through a divorce and eventually helped her find a job.

But the negative side is addressed as well:

Dr. O’Connor, an associate professor of psychology at University College Dublin, tested this balance by comparing large cohorts of people who met diagnostic criteria for a disorder like depression or A.D.H.D. — one group that received a diagnosis, and one that did not.

What her team found, after controlling for symptom severity and socio-demographic factors, is that the diagnosed groups did somewhat worse. Young adults who were diagnosed with depression in adolescence had worse depression symptoms later, despite getting treatment; children who had been diagnosed with A.D.H.D. had worse peer relationships, worse self-image and worse emotional well-being.

Often, Dr. O’Connor said, adults feel some regret that they did not receive their diagnosis as children. “But the objective evidence we have suggests that might not actually have been the case,” she said.

Bottom line is that I completely concur with this person but fear the message is not landing.

what he tells them is not to take the exact label too seriously; he has seen what can go wrong when people build their identity around a diagnosis. Psychiatric problems are fuzzy and fluid, he tells them. They exist in a mesh of temperament and life story — “one thread,” he said, “in a much larger story of who you are.”

As for his fellow clinicians, he wants them to stop seeing diagnosis as a neutral, procedural step, and to understand the power that their words command

The only difference of opinion I have there is the phrase “psychiatric problems” … my view is that these are not exclusively “problems”; they are variations that have positives as well as negatives and we both undersell the positives and oversell the pathologizing of variation.

I dunno why nobody has responded to this. It’s a great topic for a thread. I just spent four hours at a baby shower and my brain is shot but I’ll definitely be reading that article and sharing my thoughts.

My preliminary thoughts are like, you don’t get accommodations in school without a diagnosis (which is mentioned above), and I was going to say being diagnosed with ADHD makes me less self-hating but I’m not even sure that is true. I’m still regularly very frustrated with myself.

I have tried to join online spaces for people with various disorders (I’ve had a lot of labels) and for the most part I have found them to be disempowering. You hear mostly from people experiencing the lows of their disorder and very little in the way of troubleshooting or skill building.

The default approach to ADHD is medication. I’m taking medication, but it isn’t everything, you know? I’ve made three separate attempts to get non-medication help with my ADHD. In the first instance, the specialist who diagnosed me handwaved away my issues in favor of talking about my trauma. In the second instance, I landed with another ADHD specialist, a psychodynamic therapist who repeatedly asked me my goals and I repeatedly told her I need help managing ADHD and she went full bore into wanting to dig into my trauma - which does not help me.

The only person who has ever helped me is Kristen Carder the ADHD Coach, I was in her coaching group for a while but lately even she has slipped into therapy mode and every other podcast is about trauma.

I guess I’d have something to say about the need to turn every challenge into a trauma narrative. I don’t say that lightly. Of all the diagnoses I have ever received, none has been so obvious as PTSD. So… That diagnosis and attending to the important issues needed to happen for me. But therapists from Freud onward seem to have always given an outsize emphasis on one’s trauma history. Most people have experienced trauma of some kind. Last I checked, only about 13% of people with trauma develop PTSD. Yet this obsession with trauma in the therapeutic and public consciousness persists, and is largely detrimental, in my opinion. There is research showing people who identify as trauma survivors generally have worse outcomes.

At this point in my life I have discrete instances where I need to attend to my trauma. Bad days or sometimes a bad month. Other than that? Don’t really want to think about it. This is not “repression” this is “ruminating on it makes me feel like shit and I’d rather not.”

Anyhow. Good subject.

Haha I’ve been slow responding to this partially because I feel like I said a lot of what I’d say in the other threads you cited!

Anyway, I like the article. I think it does a good job of looking at the positive and negative experiences, and it jibes with my anecdotal experiences.

Positive effects of diagnosis: I happened to see one of my son’s classmates one day (she would have been in fourth grade at the time) and asked her how she was doing, and she said, “I found out yesterday I have dyslexia.” I asked her a little more about it, and it turns out that she was actually really relieved to have been diagnosed. She’d already noticed she was different, and had to get special reading lessons, and I guess it had been bothering her. And to have a name for it really helped her.

I don’t think the article said this, but I’ve also found having a diagnosis for my child useful as a shorthand for telling other people “this is what you might expect from my child.”

Negative effects of diagnosis: heh, a friend just reminded me about a mutual acquaintance who has been diagnosed as ASD and seems to really have built her identity around it. Everything negative that happens to her seems to be the ASD’s fault, and anyone who disagrees with her is doing so because they’re ableist. It’s really not pleasant to interact with this individual for long. I don’t know… she clearly has issues, maybe if it wasn’t ASD it would be something else that was the issue.

My kid knows she is ASD but I’ve always told her it’s just a word that describes how her brain tends to work. It doesn’t mean anything about her.

I think labels can be used to demand accommodations when they aren’t really reasonable. My husband has gotten into it with some people who think everything should be accommodated all the time in any way they want, and he’s had to push back, as a psychologist with a lot of school experience, actually no, this certain accommodation is more likely to do long-term harm. People get really mad about it.

At the same time, I think he parents a bit differently. He’s already complaining about schools not understanding our child’s experience, like he expects them to get autism on some deep cosmic level. Whereas I don’t know if his expectations are really realistic. They seem fine to me. They are just trying to get through the school day without incident.

But I’ve definitely heard that diagnosis is key in schools to getting the proper accommodations, which is why we’re also getting my son evaluated for ADHD soon. We’ve had two major incidents at school already related to innattention and impulsivity, so it’s time. The teacher couldn’t officially tell us to go get our kid diagnosed but she (intentionally, I think) dropped just about every keyword for ADHD and ODD. (She’s wrong about ODD, in my opinion. I think the defiance is related to overstimulation and impulsivity.) These are complicated issues that deserve the attention of specialists in children who have these specific issues.

And I’m not gonna lie, I’m pretty frustrated that I had to terminate therapy when I was trying to find out if I’m autistic. I don’t know if I’m ever getting an answer to that now.

I like diagnoses because they help me identify key points that need work and pursue tailored tools for addressing those specific issues. If someone has social anxiety because of past trauma, because of social problems related to ADHD or because of autism, the solution can actually look pretty different depending on the reason. And I don’t really have that answer for myself so I’m not sure what the solution is for myself.

I’ve gone through phases of having one single diagnosis define me, I think it’s rather normative to be obsessed with a new diagnosis for a while and then eventually it just gets integrated into the whole. And neurodevelopmental disorders are definitely the kind of diagnosis that has you reassessing your entire life and understanding it through a new lens. Things that didn’t make sense suddenly do. And that’s not nothing. When I realized how big a factor ADHD played in my childhood abuse, I was pretty floored. But I was also able to let go of some of that guilt I had for not being able to do what was expected of me.

I appreciate the responses and discussion and they flesh out the issues raised in article and that I have been personally been trying to balance.

Another limitation of these labels as shorthands, useful and necessary as shorthands may be, is getting people to truely grasp the importance that these conditions are not only spectrums of defined entities differing in degree; they are also collections of different things put under umbrellas.

A recent article about that might be of specific interest to you @Spice_Weasel , the finding that early and late diagnosed autistic spectrum disorder have different polygenic predispositions and comorbidity tendencies. They are under the same umbrella but apparently not the same thing: “earlier- and later-diagnosed autism have different developmental trajectories and genetic profiles.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09542-6

Possibly of specific interest to you -

The later-diagnosed autism factor (factor 2) showed a statistically similar genetic correlation with educational attainment but significantly higher genetic correlations (rg of around 0.5–0.7) with ADHD and a range of other mental-health and related conditions, including depression, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), childhood maltreatment and self-harm. … The higher genetic correlation between later-diagnosed autism and other mental-health conditions may indicate diagnostic misclassification (in which individuals with other conditions incorrectly receive an autism diagnosis) or diagnostic overshadowing (where the presence of co-occurring mental-health conditions can delay an autism diagnosis).

From my perspective the key takeaway is that what gets labeled as autism diagnosed earlier and what gets labeled as autism when diagnosed later have superficial phenotypic similarities but are under the hood different things. Not just different in degree. Your perspective may hone in more on the specific co-occurring labeled mental health conditions …

This. I work in two different areas of the medical field, primarily in the care of patients in nursing homes and skilled nursing settings, but also doing medical clearances for patients in an inpatient psychiatric hospital. Being that psychiatrists are mostly limited to diagnosing based on symptoms rather than findings from lab or imaging studies, it makes sense that diagnoses are based around symptoms. None the less, I get the impression that it’s highly likely that different underlying problems are getting lumped together under the same diagnosis, and that this is a big part of why some treatments work well for some people but not others.

Let’s highlight some of @raspberry_hunter ’s post.

Exactly. The relief and sense of (fictive sense of?) power given by being able to name something. And early identification of dyslexia, i.e. specific reading learning disorder, is vital and often not accomplished early enough. It gets kids special reading lessons while the focus is still on learning to read rather than reading to learn, and with intervention early and use of assistive technology as needed kids with dyslexia can both learn to read well and enjoy it … but she is already getting the reading help. So the positive here is the positive of having a name, not the opening of doors that are otherwise closed. Will she long term also have a negative? I think it depends on how it is framed to her. It is not a sentence. It is not an identity. It is a name for a particular challenge she has.

The mutual acquaintance with ASD? People who have ASD are not immune from being selfish self centered jerks, just like others without the label can be.

I have some autism spectrum traits, as did my mom. I’ve never been diagnosed or accommodated, and i don’t know if i would meet diagnostic criteria. But my mom once commented to me, “isn’t nice not to have a label”. I think she was right about that.

I was diagnosed, very casually, as dyslexic. That was long after i had learned to read, and my reading has always been fine for my age. But i do read more slowly than many of my peers, especially if the details matter, as otherwise i tend to misread some words and get words out of order. I obviously didn’t need any special accommodations for that. But i hope that there are useful strategies that can be used to help kids with dyslexia learn to read competently. I wonder if the diagnosis is limiting, though, and makes kids feel like it’s not worth trying.

Yeah, I should also append here that her parents already knew she was dyslexic, which was why she had the reading lessons already, so the diagnosis helped her in this way as well. They had been holding off telling her for exactly the same kinds of fears articulated in this post: being worried that she would feel it was an identity and feel bad about herself because of it.

(It is probably clear that I don’t hold with not telling kids their diagnoses. However, I do hold with not making it a big deal. My kid has fast-growing brown hair and nearsighted eyes and an autistic brain, and those are all part of her, and all involve their own issues, some more than others, but it’s just a thing to deal with.)

Oh yeah. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it until the cows come home: I think it was a big mistake to put Asperger’s under the same label as autism. The difficulties my child has had are nontrivial, but they are absolutely not the same either in degree or in kind as I see in the kids I know who are autistic but not Asperger’s-like. With my kid, I feel that everything can be explained by two factors: 1) a brain where many of the synapses that are usually devoted to emotional/social functions got shunted to logic and pattern-matching instead, and 2) a deep and profound anxiety about being wrong. That’s not the case for all autistic kids for sure.

My understanding is that this is the case, yes, but I don’t know much about it.

A dyslexia story from when I was an intern and had just studied up on it -

NICU nurse was having a hard time with left from right and I had just learned about how that is common among those with the more common form of dyslexia, poor coding decoding skills. Asked her politely about reading and spelling growing up and now (poor spelling as an adult is often the residual of childhood dyslexia never addressed) and “Oh my brothers and sisters and I were always bad students and never could read great.” Asked her to read a word that I guessed she had not seen before but not hard to sound out - “plethora” - couldn’t make a stab at it. The woman had not appreciated that she was a fricken genius who had memorized enough word shapes, used enough go around, and was smart enough, to achieve to her highly accomplished professional level in the face of an unrecognized significant degree specific reading disability. Thought she was stupid.

So yes I see the value of the label even beyond opening up for appropriate early interventions. We just need more of use framing these labels as @raspberry_hunter does, a short hand description of part of you, not who or what you are.

No disagreement with anything said yet.

I’ll just make the observation that a diagnosis (or label) has little utility if there’s no corrective intervention available. In some cases because the state of the art doesn’t exist to intervene, and in many other cases because the funds aren’t available to deliver well-known effective interventions to the patient. Whether due to underfunding of supportive public programs in schools and such, or due to lack of family income to pay for what are often expensive labor- and time-intensive interventions. Lastly of course is the question of parental competence or willingness to exert the effort.

Your NICU nurse may well have been someone who would not have benefited (much) from an early label due to lack of all those things I outlined above.

Which is a damned shame, but it sure seems like our world is hell-bent on making nearly everything worse for nearly everyone. If it takes a village, it sure sounds like we’re doing our level best to destroy the village, leaving atomized individuals to fend for themselves in the cold and dark.

My understanding is that comorbidity is the rule rather than the exception. Most people with a disorder also have one or more other disorders. And when I look at my various diagnoses over the years I can see how each clinician interpreted the same symptoms through different lenses.

My experience with ADHD has been so idiosyncratic. It’s so weird that it’s true that even after diagnosis I’ve reviewed screening tools and criteria myself to be sure because I’m not the profile. People view me as super on top of things and very dedicated and high achieving. They don’t see what my poor husband sees, lol. And they don’t see how chaotic and overwhelming it is to be in my head.
But there has been research on ADHD and they’ve found that symptoms tend to improve the more busy you are.

I did have that blissful little moment when I was diagnosed, and it faded, and the effects of medication fade too, and in the end you are just left with yourself. It’s 8 years out from my diagnosis. I’m trying to think about what the good effects actually are. Most of my friends have ADHD or autism. We seem to know how to find each other (it’s almost uncanny.) So there’s a bonding point, I guess. I do find some usefulness in watching productivity advice for people with ADHD because standard advice is not very effective.

Am I less hard on myself? When I look at my childhood behaviors, I would say I’m more forgiving of that child. I’m not particularly forgiving of my present day self, though.

Am I more productive? Not really. I’ve been in a job for ten years where my performance has been measured by reliability in meeting my deadlines and actual dollars raised. When I’m not working on deadlines, I’m not doing a lot, and feeling bad about not doing a lot. When the pressure is on, though, I deliver. That’s what matters most to my employer and that’s really the only way I sleep at night. But I frequently feel like shit about what I’m not getting done, either at work or at home. By “frequently” I mean most days. Knowing I have ADHD hasn’t really changed my feeling that I should be doing better.

I realize that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for diagnosis.

Hmm

You are adding evidence to my informal dyslexia diagnosis. I’m also really bad at proofreading.

I was talking to my husband about this and he pointed out my ADHD diagnosis has reminded him on several occasions not to nag me about certain things.

So I guess you can put “me getting nagged less often” on the positive side.

Asperger’s would be now described as Level 1 support needs. What I wish people understood is the gulf of difference between Level 1 and Level 2 and Level 2 and Level 3. Because he is so smart and verbal, people want to push my son into the Level 1 category. But he’s not. He has a significant disability whether others think they can see it or not. Yet what he’s dealing with is worlds apart from non-verbal autism. The way the research is going, autism isn’t one or even two things, but many things, and these differences really matter.

I’m still wrestling with how to explain this stuff to him. So far I’ve kind of normalized it by openly talking about my own social struggles. I accidentally referred to a group of teenagers standing by a mailbox as “terrifying” and my son was like wait, why are they terrifying? I had to explain that was exaggeration and a joke and I have social anxiety.

I think you are addressing a different thing than what was in the quote you responded to, but they are, to my read, related concepts.

Mostly these labels are phenomenalogic descriptors of likely many various causes, not necessarily of shared etiology, shoved under singular umbrellas. And the same biological etiology may manifest in a variety of forms phenomenalogically.

Do these individuals who fit multiple diagnostic labels have multiple disease states, or do they have a single disease state manifesting in ways none of our boxes quite encompass so need to have several labels to have its characteristics described less inadequately? That is they have multiple conditions nosologically but not physiologically …

I suspect the latter is more common than the former.

They are part of how I scan for probable family history that is not diagnosed. This form of dyslexia is fairly highly hereditable. Thing is for you, and I think I am safe making my assumptions, your reading disability was matched both a a general intelligence high enough to … compensate? Fake it? on reading tasks. And superior to gifted levels in math domains. You were at less risk of being presumed lazy or dumb for those reasons. A more overall average, middle third, intelligence unlabeled child? Would likely have just felt stupid and/or thought to be lazy. Even when proper remediation is lacking knowing that those are not the case is useful, @LSLGuy .

Yes, i was able to compensate, and i always tested well on reading comprehension. I just read a little more slowly than my peers. And there’s not really a lot of stigma around “poor spelling” in school.

I imagine a label of “dyslexia” is better than a label of “lazy” or “dumb”. But i didn’t get stuck with either of those. And yes, in my prime i was in the top 0.1% of math ability, which helps avoid labels like “dumb”.

Heh. I think I’ve told this story before – one of my friends was wondering whether she was ASD after her child was tested to be on the spectrum, and I told her that the fact that we were friends did make it extremely likely she was neurodiverse in some way. I think almost all of my friends are neurodiverse…

Back when I was first learning about it part of the definition of a specific learning disability was 15 points (I think) lower on the specific subset than overall IQ. That allowed for a gifted child to be solidly average in the subset, say 105, and still recognize their LD as their general IQ was say 135.

No idea if that is the current official definition.

I tell my patients, from time to time, that the brain is an organ like any other and sometimes it doesn’t work as well as it might.

Back when I was around a fair number of 12 steppers you would often see an epiphany moment when they would say ‘I realized that I was sick person, not a bad person.’ In my observation that greatly facilitates owning the bad things they might have done and fixing what can be fixed.

In the case of worse outcomes, I’d be curious to contrast that with medical diagnosis and psych/social factors. A finding of HIV, or cancer or juvenal onset diabetes can cause some parents to be way too protective and, ISTM, make it harder for a child to thrive.

One time we had a 19 or 20 year old coming in by ambulance, and their mother called ahead with a lot of unreasonable demands about how we were supposed modify the ER environment to facilitate his autism. Even if they’d been possible, the patient didn’t really need them.