It depends on how you define “greatest”, of course, but Lib, affecting how you–or even, say, one whole generation of Americans–think about Britons is really not that big of a deal, not when compared to a couple of millenia worth of history–so many important people from Britain are still effecting the way that we think about the world today,and did it is such an enourous way that we don’t even remember them now–we call it “common sense” (thinking Hume, Locke, Hobbes, Darwin, Newton here). So much of how we think history works was defined by people from Britan (Bede to Gibbon to Maitland) and frankly, so much of the globe was, at one point or another, controlled by people from Britan. Simply effecting how poeple think of Britan, instead of thinking how people think at all dosen’t seem nearly as important to me.
Look, you can knock me all you want.
You can attack me intellectually, and you’re probably right that I should have known better to start with. But frankly, it is ironic that here you are sweeping aside my observations that you’re not unfeeling, while using a remarkably sterile argument for a broom.
She spoke to my heart, and even if you beat me to a pulp here with your righteous indignation, I will still believe always that there was at least one who was good.
Lib, I’m pleased that you like us some English people now. That’s nice. But
Come on! It’s text! How do you know how impassioned I am about my country? Reasoned argument is what this board is all about. I’m not suddenly going to start crying and wailing. We’re discussing normally. Don’t project how you feel onto what we’re writing.
And beat you to a pulp with righteous indignation? Maybe not, eh? Perhaps we’re simply saying that Diana wasn’t the saint she was portrayed as and that to view English people in terms of her isn’t the best thing in the world?
I’m glad she touched you, but please don’t replace one stereotype with another.
oh for fucks sake, get off the cross.
The whole point is strangely enough out of a population of millions there’s several who are good. On top of that there’s several bad, a few mediocre, and some others. Surely to god you can see how stupid it is to subscribe to caricatured stereotypes as true for a whole nation?
Private Eye’s take on the public and the media.
Diana was a flawed human being, like the rest of us. She was also a very good manipulator of the media - just ask Martin Bashir - who wasn’t afraid to use it to portray herself more sympathetically.
She was not a “great” Briton in terms of her legacy. She was probably - I didn’t know her, so who am I to judge? - a good person who wanted to be liked and to do good things for others. There are a lot of people like that, and ordinary Britons grieve for their deaths on a daily basis.
I stand by what I said: Lib, you need to get to know more Britons.
As in real people. Not media concoctions.
Quite honestly, it would be just as well if I forget about the ones I “got to know” in this thread. My advice to Britons is to let the media do more concocting for them.
Uhmm, Lib, you weren’t one of the kids beating me up because I was English when I was a kid, were you? 
Actually, in Libertarians defense, a lot (not all!) Americans do have quite a few misunderstandings about British culture. For the record, I have never heard one of my relatives say “Pip, pip cheerio” and my parents don’t refer to it as “bangers and mash”. Toad in the hole, however, is a completely different matter!
Getting back to the original rant, I agree. With all the magnificent women England has produced, going back to Boadicea herself, Diana makes the top 10?!! Including both sexes?!! Maybe I ought to move back – I might stand a chance of cracking it myself, she said modestly.
CJ
So we’re all meanies for disagreeing? You’d rather stick to media caricatures?
Typical American.
I’m sorry we didn’t live up to your perfect ideals, Lib, and instead turned out to be human beings capable of disagreeing with you about your media-reliant blinkered preconceptions of our nation.
I’m sorry. My tone was nastier than it needed to be. Not setting a good example
Come to think of it, “snobby Brit” was one of the things I was called as an English kid growing up in the States. It was one of the nicer things at that. I wouldn’t have thought of Diana as an argument against the British being snobs. After all, she was acceptable as a bride because she was a member of the correct class. Still I’ll take most things which will change people’s attitudes. Besides, despite childish misconceptions, Libertarian is one of my favourite people around here.
CJ
To recap:
You make racist statement
We take you to task
You say that we’re bad examples of Britons because of this.
Just as well I’ve no intention of letting your behaviour here change my opinion of Americans*, isn’t it.
[sub]*Namely that there’s lots of them, they come in different shapes, sizes and colours, with a fairly standard ratio of good people to assholes.[/sub]
Cripes, don’t pick Diana as one of the top ten Brits of all time. Some scuzzball will dig up her grave and photograph her reaction to the news.
Wearing a different dress.
For heaven’s sake, she managed to snag Charles into marrying her, produced the obligatory “heir and a spare”, and then was hounded into her grave by the tabloids. This makes her Top Ten material? Someone is confusing “celebrity” with “significance”.
All it proves is that there are sectors of the media that I wouldn’t pee on if they were on fire.
Regards,
Shodan
Actually, I think the greatest Britain is Great Britain. Followed, of course, by New Britain.
::d&r::
CJ wrote:
Thank you, CJ.
Gary wrote:
Britons are a “race”? I don’t think you’re bad examples of Britons. I just think you’re plain old shitheads.
What, all of us?
Seems like it.
Diana was sent to a fee paying school of a standard that befitted the standing of her family, in other words it was exclusive, expensive and the student/teacher ratios are around 9 to 1, unlike the state schools where ratios are usually around 25-30 to one.
One might have expected that with all this going for her that she would at least reach A-level standard and go on to one of the more salubrious universities.
So what qualifications did she leave with ?
None, not a sausage, not a bean, bugger all!
As an intellectual midget she was a giant, but she made up for it with devious manipulation and fawning sycophants.
Whilst Charles is no great intellectual master, Diana was simply never his equal, good grief she wasn’t fit to stand in the same bloody county when it comes to thinking power.
The result is that our media attempted to brainwash the British public with headlines such as
“Oooh look at the pretty dress Diana is wearing”
“Oooh look at those sparkly jewels Diana is wearing”
“Ooooh, isn’t Diana brave, walking through a minefield that someone else risked their lives to clear her path”
“Oooh look how gratefull that HIV positive person is for Diana actually touching them”
Fuck me!
Diana, great ?
Don’t make me laugh, her job as a childminder was a shoe in, she didn’t even have the necessary qualifications for that.
In many ways I have a good deal of contempt for her, I actually had to work to get to the humdrum level I’m at, others I know have been through far more and worked so much harder.