Dick Durbin says sorry - will those who supported his comments say sorry too?

[John_Mace]

There is one and only one reason to liken something to the Nazisi: to evoke images of gas chambers and millions of people killed.

There is one and only one reason to liken something to a Gulag: to evoke images of tens of millions of people suffering in inhuman conditions and millions of people killed.

There is one and only reason to liken somethink to the Pol Pot regime: to evoke images of the killing fields, with millions of people killed.

Now, I don’t for one minute think that Durbin didn’t bow to political pressure when he apologized. But that doesn’t alter the fact that his original statement was out of line.

[newcrasher]

@ArchiveGuy

I’m still trying to find what is so inaccurate about this statement. After all, if you did read the description and not know the origin, wouldn’t you assume that it came from a totalitarian regime? He did not compare Gitmo to the worst offenses under HitStalPot, but he did say that some of the worst abuses there are more consistent with the methods of regimes we should try as hard as possible not to emulate.

He apologized out of political necessity. Were his comments inflammatory? Sure. Were they wrong? I don’t think so.

I guess they were technically accurate. If I said, “His posts spoke of a totalitarian government, Hitler, and government abuses. If I did not tell you this was ArchiveGuy, you certainly would havwe thought it was Timothy McVeigh.”

That would be a technically accurate statement, but one that is not honest. You could infer that ArchiveGuy was plotting to blow up a building, because that is what comes to mind when you mention Timothy McVeigh.

See I am granting that there are concerns about Gitmo, legitimate ones. I have just been saying that Durbin’s original comments were intellectullay dishonest, but still technically accurate.

[Giraffe]

@newcrasher

I think people will continue to support Durbin’s statements even though he has abandoned them because they refuse to feel they are giving an inch to Bush.

It’s not about giving an inch to Bush. It’s about political discourse on important issues being stalled through fake outrage and mock offense. As I posted in the other thread:

@Giraffe

But there’s nothing in his remarks that implies he’s blaming the troops for the abuses. Rather, he’s saying an environment has been created which is so far from our ideals as a nation that we would not recognize ourselves if presented with the same actions out of context. I think this is an incredibly important point, in light of the fact that we see these things happening again and again and again. That’s not what I want my country to stand for.

I find it far more irritating that the discussion immediately gets changed to “Durbin called the troops Nazis!” As long as the soundbyte spin machine is running full gear, we’ll never have an actual public discussion of this stuff.

And, as predicted, the soundbyte machine churned until Durbin recanted and the issue can be safely ignored again. Durbin’s rhetoric was overly dramatic, but not so much that his point wasn’t clear. Spinning it into a “debate” about whether or not he thinks we’re Nazis is political bullshit, nothing more.

[FinnAgain]

John? Bullshit.

There is one and only one? Pffffffffffffft. How about “regimes which didn’t respect human rights for 100, Alex?”

I’m tellin’ y’all, Mongols.

[The_Highwayman]

Let me spell this out for you as clearly as I can:

YOU CAN SUCK A FART OUT OF MY ASSHOLE YOU REPUBLICAN COCKSUCKER.

Like my apology?

I don’t think what he said was all that bad considering it was just a poor use of words compared to BU$HCO’s lies have killed how many of our servicemen? Fuck you buddy. It’s all a diversion from the real culprits.

[Miller]

@newcrasher

I guess you could, but when the guy who said them in the first place says they were poorly chosen, ya gotta think…

Only if you presuppose that the reason people agreed with what Durbin said is because Durbin said it. I’d never heard of this guy before that thread. If I’ve been saying for years now that Bush is Hitler (I haven’t, I’m being hypothetical) and some guy I’ve never heard of initially says something similar, then later retracts it, why should that have any bearing on my original position? I think the majority of posters defending Durbin were defending a viewpoint they already held. There’s no particular reason to alter that opinion just because a third party briefly agreed then backed off.

[newcrasher]

@Miller

Only if you presuppose that the reason people agreed with what Durbin said is because Durbin said it. I’d never heard of this guy before that thread. If I’ve been saying for years now that Bush is Hitler (I haven’t, I’m being hypothetical) and some guy I’ve never heard of initially says something similar, then later retracts it, why should that have any bearing on my original position? I think the majority of posters defending Durbin were defending a viewpoint they already held. There’s no particular reason to alter that opinion just because a third party briefly agreed then backed off.

Well if you had been comparing Bush to Hitler it would demonstrate a gross lack of understanding of history. I would expect a person holding these views to support Durbin’s comments because they reflected his own views. Even if Durbin retracted them, they would still be your views.

But I think most thinking people know that drawing any parrallel to NAzi’s is just a bad idea. It also demonstrates a lack on knowledge of history, which I find disturbing in a Senator.

[Mr.Moto]

@eleanorigby

Actually, Durbin is my senator, and he will hear from me about this.

I think that not only should he NOT have apologized, I think he should have pressed the point home. I will write to him expressing my dismay that he did not stick to his guns.
I wish that Dems would see that we are at war in this country–an ideological war. And the Right has never pulled a punch once. We get nowhere by being wusses. We need to reveal the double standard ever present right now in behavior ( a certian senator’s denigration of the use of the Nazi comparison and then his own use of it a few weeks later springs to mind).

Uh huh. Which senator would that be, praytell.

If it’s the same one I’m thinking of, he did indeed apologize, as he should have and as Durbin should have done sooner.

Sounds like a pulled punch to me.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@newcrasher

It also demonstrates a lack on knowledge of history, which I find disturbing in a Senator.

Is that true for all senators, or just some of them?

[Neurotik]

@Diogenes the Cynic

He had nothing to apologize for. I’m sorry he caved.

This sums it up. I’m sorry Durbin is such a fucking coward. The treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is more like a Soviet gulag, a Nazi concentration camp or any number of other atrocities than something representing American values.

Americans don’t believe in torture. Americans don’t believe in abandoning due process. Americans do believe in justice and human rights.

Durbin represents everything wrong with the Democratic party and every reason they won’t win anything for a long, long while.

[Unregistered_Bull]

I pit Durbin for being a pussy. Eventhough he caved because even most Democrat voters actually support torture.

[newcrasher]

@Neurotik

The treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is more like a Soviet gulag, a Nazi concentration camp or any number of other atrocities than something representing American values.

OK I’ll bite.

In what way does Gitmo resemble Treblinca? Dachau? Auscwitz?

In what way does it resemble the forced labor camps of Siberia?

[Squink]

@Unregistered Bull

Even though he caved because even most Democrat voters actually support torture.

Nope, the poll last year (find it yourself, it’s in some GD thread from that era) showed <10% of democrats and ~50% of republicans support torture.

[newcrasher]

@Hentor the Barbarian

Is that true for all senators, or just some of them?

Why would you ask?

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@newcrasher

Why would you ask?

Simply because Durbin isn’t the first senator to mention Nazis. Surely you’re aware of this?

[newcrasher]

I am no Risk Santorum fan. If that is what you mean.

Yes. ANY Senator who invokes the Nazi’s does so at his own peril.

[Reeder]

Y’all do know gulag prisoners were sentenced to a specific time. Once the time was pulled they got out.
So y’all are right…gitmo is not like a gulag. They have no idea when or even if they will get out.

[newcrasher]

Are you suggesting that conditions in a Soviet era gulag are better than in Gitmo? Certainly you can parse words and look for hair splitting opportunities to glorify the gulag and denigrate Gitmo, but that just serves to illustrate the inanity of your case.

So let me ask. Would you rather be in a forced labor camp under a sentence of 10 years hard labor or in Gitmo today?

[Mr.Moto]

@Hentor the Barbarian

Simply because Durbin isn’t the first senator to mention Nazis. Surely you’re aware of this?

Santorum wasn’t first either. I assume you’re aware of this as well.

For those of you who bought programs at the gate, for Idiotic Nazi Comments (Senators), the score is now Democrats 2, Republicans 1.

[Unregistered_Bull]

@Squink

Nope, the poll last year (find it yourself, it’s in some GD thread from that era) showed <10% of democrats and ~50% of republicans support torture.

Then he’s even more of a pussy.