Well Galaxy-class starships clean themselves (according to the season 2 episode with the space Irish & clone society). How they did it was never addressed again.
Board rules require you to point out that the episode in question included the hottest Trek babe ever.
We’ll overlook it just this once, but don’t let it happen again.
Data and Lore are the only computers that are (or behave) openly sentient among humans. However, the ship’s computer (and other facility computers seen in the Star Trek universe seem curiously able to respond to the crews’ expectations and demands, including producing exact holodeck simulations based upon sparse data and delaying the opening of a door until the dramatically appropriate time. Overall, the technology is fantastically inconsistent; it seems quite capable of doing every needed task except for those that can be performed by the crew, not dissimilar to how the STS/Shuttle has a button for deploying landing gear even though there is no reason this couldn’t be done by the autopilot as nearly every other operation.
Now, I’m not one to leap onto a half-baked conspiracy theory wantonly. I don’t subscribe to the theory that Major Nelson was just having a hallucination fed by hypoxia as the sodium hydroxide canisters of his ill-fated Gemini XIII mission, or that the A-Team were secretly in league with organized crime to give the appearance of rescuing victims while robbing them blind. I’ll even concede that, agains the odds, Jessica Fletcher may not be the most successful mass murderer of all time. But it is readily apparent that there is a hidden agenda behind the seemingly effortless technology of Star Trek which renders even complete morons capable of reducing a planet-destroying menace into microscopic dust with a few keystrokes. As with Gilligan’s Island and My Three Sons, the story as presented simply makes no sense, until the sinister backstory is revealed.
Stranger
Sometimes it isn’t quite a “sinister” backstory that is necessary to make sense of it, just a little more “eyes open” examination of what the situation is all about.
To wit; Petticoat Junction.
Three single and attactive young women with no visible means of support, living with an older woman and “Uncle Joe” at “The Shady Rest” hotel at what is allegedly a train watering station with a mildly provacative name. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what is really going on there.
You forgot Yoda and Anakin conspiring to destroy the Republic and eventually replace it with a new Jedi order. As for Fletcher, let Columbo near her for 90 minutes and the biddy would be in the slammer fast than you can say “just one more thing.”
And so, the TNG situation leads directly to my classic SCA theory.
I wasn’t going to respond, but presuming my lack of “serious thought” sort of annoys me. Asides from the fact that you took my reply out of context, yes I have given it thought, possibly moreso than you. I am one of these people today that is devoid of financial need thanks in large part to my family. Thus, I’ve devoted myself to music and academia, because these are things that I happen to be good at it. The idea that “most people” would do what I do though, is IMO ludicrous. Furthermore, this is work which I do not out of sense of need, but out of passion, want, interest, etc. It becomes a glorified hobby for which I periodically get paid for anyway.
Think of all the people in today’s society who have enough money to live their entire lives comfortably, without fear of monetary need. Like in an earlier thread where I asked about a knowledge based economy and what that means, there has to be a saturation point with musicians and writers and lawyers and college professors, etc. etc. etc. Besides, of wealthy people today, how many are Bill Gates and Bono and Warren Buffet, doing philanthropic deeds and, for all intents and purposes, bettering the world? And how many Hiltons and Kardashians and rappers and football stars are there, who seem to live an MTV cribs life that is nothing short of the most hedonistic excess? What does a person who is not intellectually or creatively inclined, and has no need to earn money do? There are people like, who have a very “live paycheque to paycheque in the moment” mentality. Would they cease to be that way, or find different outlets? I’m sure they could work on their squash game for 20 or 30 years, but I would say that’s closer to “drinking and doing nothing” than “making the world a better place.”
To come back to the point I was originally responding to, there are simply jobs that people would not want to do if they had no monetary need. I said barber because of Mr. Mot on TNG, but yeah, there are other better examples. So when I say people don’t need to work, I really mean they don’t need to work. You’re right in thinking that some people would find inventive ways to spend their time, yet I’m reminded of one of my favorite lines from Office Space:
But that’s exactly the point. It’s not that everyone on Earth voluntarily works at a fulfilling and creative job that they do because the love it not because they need to.
Rather, most people really do sit around doing the 24th Century equivalent of drinking beer and watching TV. It’s just that a show about a 24th Century slob with no ambitions isn’t going to be very interesting to watch, and all the characters we see onscreen are people who aren’t content to vegetate. And so we see plenty of people who want to be in Starfleet and travel the galaxy. But they don’t join Starfleet because Starfleet will offer them a higher standard of living.
I mean, you could have an interesting show about a 24th century unambitious slob (such as, you know, Red Dwarf). But that slob would have to be put in a situation where interesting things happen to him (such as, you know, being put in stasis for a million years and being the last human being alive). If that slob doesn’t have to work for a living, if he just sits around watching TV and eating curry and drinking lager, then why would we watch a show about him?
And of course, the objection that no one would shovel shit if they had a million dollars, well, exactly. But the economy of Star Trek is such that everyone on Earth has a million dollars, and so they all refuse to clean up shit, but luckily they don’t need to hire people to clean up shit, they just press a button and the shit cleans itself up.
I mean, I suppose someone could live in squalor if they’re too lazy to actually walk over to the toilet before shitting, and they just take a dump in the middle of the floor, and expect robots to clean it up. And they actually have to walk over to the replicator to pick up their curry and lager, they probably don’t have a robot who’ll bring it over on a tray. So there’s a certain amount of work that even the lowest dregs of society will be obligated to do–feed themselves, dress themselves, use the toilet themselves, and so on. But beyond that? Nothing.
And that doesn’t matter. Because honestly, even if you threatened to withhold replicated food unless someone makes a positive contribution, most people aren’t cut out to be poets and scientists. In a world where gourmet food comes out of replicators, there isn’t much demand for dishwashers, busboys, frycooks, and waiters. So if all you’re good for is a menial service job, then there’s no work for you in the 24th century, because every crap job like that is automated, which is a good thing, because otherwise people who could only work crap jobs would starve to death. And instead they get the basics of life at no cost, because the only alternative is to grind them up for Soylent Green.
So there’s a barber on the Enterprise. And he doesn’t get paid in credits that he can exchange for food and shelter. He gets paid by getting to travel the galaxy on the Enterprise. If he doesn’t want to be a barber on the Enterprise, he can stay home on Earth or wherever, and watch TV all day, and we’ll find someone else who wants to travel the galaxy in return for cutting hair.
Bolia, presumably, since Mr Mot is a Bolian.
However, you’d think that at least once, they’d have cut to a huge amount of Earth’s populace living lives ala WALL-E. They never mentioned this, thus it appears most people on Earth did *something. *
One of the things that got this discussion going, however, was Picard’s throw-away line that human’s had “evolved” beyond the need to aquire material wealth, but seek to better themselves and/or humanity.
“Evolved”, to me, seems to be an interesting choice as a descriptor. We don’t say we “evolved” beyond the need to ride horses. We say we invented, or found a better way.
Is there some social programming going on, as well? If WWIII blew away hundreds of millions (600 million, according to Memory alpha), the populations in the devastated areas are going to want no free loaders.
My thought was was all of the basic needs were taken care of. But suppose you don’t want UFP brand Solyent Green every meal and you want a holodeck nextto your jacuzzi? The credits were so you could buy things above and beyond your basic standard of survival.
I remember Bashir turning down latinum once, but I can’t remember why. Were Federation citizens not allowed to have it? I know Nog hid 5 bars under his mattress.
In one of the TNG/DS9 crossover episodes,there was insinuation that Quark owed Riker a significant amount of latinum. So if hu-mons were gambling in his bar, they must have gotten paid somehow…
There’s no prohibition on humans having latinum, but as a Starfleet doctor Bashir was not allowed to charge for his services.
Under what circumstances did Bashir turn down the latinum? If someone was offering it to him in compensation for medical services, it might just have been professional pride; he was paid (in credits) by Starfleet, after all.
I agree. Of course, with 24th century medical technology it seems nobody needs to be fat unless they want to be.
And I’d agree that is seems like most people don’t literally sit around watching TV all day. See, the reason slobs today watch TV all day is that it doesn’t cost anything. It’s free. But in the 24th century you can engage in all sorts of other activities that don’t cost anything and would be more interesting/fulfulling than watching TV.
But if you’re a hard-core troglodyte holodeck addict, then you’ve disappeared into your own world and nobody ever sees you again, which is why we never see people like this.
But look at it like boy scouts. Nobody gets paid to be a boy scout. Nobody gets paid to be a scoutmaster. People do it for fun. My 8 year old daughter loves ballet. Nobody pays her to perform in the Nutcracker, she does it because she likes it, even though it’s a lot of work. Nobody today becomes a professional ballerina because they want the big bucks. If you told them, “Hey, here are two jobs. In one, you get paid $40,000 a year for nothing. In the other, you get paid $40,000 and perform in a top rated ballet corp. Which do you choose?”
And so, in the 24th Century, everyone has that $40,000 a year for nothing. And so there’s no point for most jobs in offering any money. Either volunteer or don’t. Up to you. But volunteering doesn’t mean you forgo income. You get just as much as anyone else.
But here today, we can’t afford to give every citizen a middle class income without requiring them to work.
Gardner Goldsmith spoke with writers for the show who described working within the plot restrictions imposed by a cashless society as “a nightmare.” Whenever the Enterprise needed anything, they had to revert to the barter system.
I think I remember one episode where he won a lot of money gambling in Quarks. But the war was going badly. He started yelling about how they’re all going to lose soon, then stormed off leaving the money behind.
Dunno if that’s what **FordTaurus **was thinking of.
(Imagines a slightly darker version of the TNG crew you didn’t see on the show)
Alien PM: My thanks to the Federation for helping to stabilize our planet’s core and save our civilization.
Picard: Oh, no thanks are necessary. A small task force will be along in a matter of months to begin collecting your debt.
Alien PM: I don’t understand. Our…debt?
Riker: You didn’t think we did this all for free, did you?
Alien PM: But…but I was led to believe that the Federation was benificent and kind.
Data: Federation propaganda is extremely efficient.
Picard: Yes, it is. The Federation may no longer have internal currency, Prime Minister, but we still have need of certain resources, and we still have to trade with other cultures. Therefore as payment for our services, we will require 10% of your gross planetary output for a period of 10 Earth Years.
Alien: But that will bankrupt us!
Riker: A small price to pay for saving your species, Prime Minister. Without Federation assistance, you would all be dead by now.
Picard: Oh, I rather doubt that it will bankrupt you, Prime Minister. You will simply have to tighten your belts for a period of time…
Alien PM: But the planetary quakes have destroyed half our infrastructure!
Picard: Yes, and we’re settling for 10% of your much reduced output, Prime Minister. I suggest you (sniffs, adjusts uniform) grab your bootstraps and begin work immediately!
Riker: As we stated, our fleet will be alone in a few months. We’re sending a file of the necessary resources we expect as our first payment. Enterprise out.
Alien PM: :eek: