Whats it like for the masses in the Federation?

Cafe Society
1

For whatever reason I often find myself wondering what life is like for the masses who aren’t serving in Star Fleet.

Voyager and the films gave a look at the Earth housing and family of crewmembers, but it could easily be said they are going to be living in a “rich area” as ranking members of SF.

TNG was most interesting I think as there were a LOT of Federation colonists even in unstable areas like the border with the Cardassians. What were these colonists getting out of it? Were they colonizing on their own “money” and volition or was it a Fed sponsored colonization effort? Worf’s half brother was interesting in that he disagreed with the prime directive, it made me wonder how many “Han Solo” types are fleeing the Federation to trade or smuggle in Ferengi space or whatever.

I’m imagining life on Earth at least is probably a bit like a gilded cage, sure you will never die from hunger or lack of medical care but you also have no assets and if you want to ever travel well better go to the Academy. The Fed also seems pretty stuffy culturally so I could imagine a exodus movement to colonies.

2

I just never understood why you’d want to be a waiter if you didn’t have to be.

3

I’m not a Trekkie, but my understanding is that there is no scarcity in the ST universe. Everything’s free, because, yanno, science.

So I’d guess that everything is voluntary. When Whoopi was a bartender, that’s what she wanted to do. Or that’s how she got on a starship, they needed a bartender. Wait, what? Why would they even want a bartender? Wouldn’t you feel awkward walking up to somebody and saying, “hey, go work the replicatin’ machine for me.” I would.

Anyway, no humans are really required in that universe, they could just send out a bunch of Cmmdr. Datas and when the Borg assimilated them, put in an order for 10^65 better Cmmdr. Datas in 10^65 better Enterprises.

4

Is it Star Trek week on the SDMB?

Yeah, I think that’s the big thing. While there does seem to be scarcity at some levels (Starfleet can’t just churn out infinite ships, and they apparently get into tussles with their neighbours over natural resources), for stuff that individual people need (food, shelter, transportation, medicine) technology seems to have made things so cheap there’s no point in having money or paying jobs. People work because they want to work, and according to Picard, spend most of their time on “self-improvement”. Picard’s brother runs the family winery because he feels like it, and Sisko’s dad a restaurant presumably for the same reason.

5

By the TNG era, the Federation is essentially post-scarcity internally. There are a few things that can’t be replicated–latinum, presumably dilithium, things like that–but day-to-day things are freely available, as Simplicio said. So, why would anyone do actual work?

The Eclipse Phase RPG puts forth some interesting ideas about an emergent post-scarcity society. In regions where people have free access to replicators, they can make anything they have a template for (which is a logically necessary limitation on Federation replicators as well–you have to have a pattern for it to work from). So, in a society where everything is available from replicators, what’s in demand?

Novelty. Often in the form of new replicator patterns, but also in terms of new experiences. You can have your “Tea, Earl Grey, hot” whenever you like, and it will always be exactly the same…but what if sometimes you’re in the mood for Ceylon, with a hint of lemon and honey, and there’s no pattern in the replicator library for it? Well, you can probably replicate the ingredients and brew it yourself, tweak it to your tastes, and then save the pattern. If you happen to brew a decent cuppa, that’s probably the easy way. Alternatively, you can look up someone who is known for brewing excellent tea–maybe they even created the pattern for your favorite Earl Grey–and ask them for a pattern. If they don’t have one quite like you want, they can certainly whip up a cup, save the pattern and send it to you, probably better and easier than you can do it yourself.

So, what do they get out of it? If you happen to be a famous starship captain, they get some bragging rights, I suppose. Otherwise, well, you owe them a small favor. Maybe a planet on your itinerary boasts an herb that isn’t in the replicator library, and they want to try to make a new tea with it, so you pick up a sample while you’re there and send them the pattern.

In An Gadaí’s waiter example–maybe the waiter is a foodie, and likes to try new things, but is a terrible cook. They strike a bargain with a chef who wants to run an old-fashioned restaurant with live staff; in exchange for waiting tables, they get to be the first to try the chef’s new recipes. At another level of indirection, maybe the waiter isn’t a foodie, but is into fashion, and the chef’s brother is a fashion designer; in exchange for waiting tables, the waiter gets the chef to call in a favor for a new outfit design.

That all sounds rather convoluted, right? Well, a measure of abstraction would almost certainly arise. In Eclipse Phase, the barter system has evolved into a reputation system. Everyone is tied into various social networks, and they have rep scores in each network. If they contribute to the network and do things for other members, they get a good reputation, and other members will do things for them in return. If they have a bad reputation, they’re regarded as a moocher, and no one will do anything for them except on a strict barter basis.

With a reputation system, the tea example would work more like this–

Picard@TeaNet: I usually favor Earl Grey, but I’m looking to try a Ceylon with just a hint of lemon and honey. Does anyone have a pattern?
Teageek@TeaNet: It’s my specialty–here you go. <Attachment: CeylonLH.template>
Picard@TeaNet: Thank you kindly. <TeaGeek@TeaNet rep+1, TeaGeek@StarfleetSocial rep +10> (Since Picard has a much higher rep at StarfleetSocial than at TeaNet, his thumbs up counts for more.)

Teageek@StarfleetSocial: Is anyone going to be visiting Enkara soon? I’d really like a pattern for a leaf from one of the lake trees.

6

I seem to remember reading a Trek novel in which someone was bitching about her relative being able to afford to use a transporter beam to travel, so maybe not everything was free?

7

The interesting thing is I don’t recall anything in TOS that indicated The Federation didn’t use money. We just never see it, because we only really interacted with the crew on a Starship, or a Starbase. It’s not like there were frequent uses for money to show up.

Whereas there were instances with Harry Mudd and that guy selling tribbles in The Trouble With Tribbles that indicate commerce is alive and well. Wasn’t one of Mudd’s gigs taking beautiful women* to some colony world in need of wives? Mudd wasn’t doing that for fun - it was lucrative.

It wasn’t until Next Gen that we get some silly points where, for instance, Riker ends up in a bar and is trying to get something from a local, but has no cash, and we start seeing references to the Federation not using money. :rolleyes: (Yeah, he bartered playing a musical instrument instead.) (You know, a simple explanation for the same scene that would work without implications about the Federation as a whole is that he was in uniform and it doesn’t have a pocket for his wallet/credit ID, etc. He’s not carrying cash, and the local doesn’t want debit.)

I think in TOS that the Fed is largely a higher general standard of living for everyone, but kinda like First World countries vs Third World countries now. There’s still a spectrum of lifestyles and wealth levels in the US, for instance, even though few are in a category like starving in Ethiopia, or living in a shack in the woods, or working 16 hours a day in a factory for 30 cents a week.

Yes, energy abundance and replicator technology has made some things much more accessible, but there’s still a need to work and earn a living. Just a farmer doesn’t have to hook up a team of mules, he monitors the equipment and plans the crop cycles, or something.

Once we start getting to Next Gen, they got stupid about stuff and it never made sense.

  • At least they seemed that way, till the Enterprise got involved.
8

Of course this is never directly addressed in the show. Other than “we don’t use money in our future world of the future” thing. But of course, what good is money? Money is just a special type of good to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. If all your goods and services are created out of a magic box, what exactly do you need money for? And also, what could your average schlub do that would be worth anything to anyone?

My personal theory is that most people on Earth pretty much sit around all day doing not much of anything except socializing and watching SpaceTV in the holosuite. And they look at the few people who dress up in funny uniforms and explore the galaxy the way we look at the guys who climb Mt Everest for fun.

People in Starfleet are only in Starfleet because that’s what they want to do. Nobody gets paid to be in Starfleet, because nobody gets paid. Starfleet is a volunteer organization. Sure, they have rules and so on, but they’re like the rules in the Boy Scouts–they only matter because if you don’t play by the rules then the other kids won’t let you play in their club. If you don’t like it, you can go back to Earth and watch TV all day.

So the only reason somebody would run a restaurant is that they like running restaurants. They certainly aren’t entitled to any extra goods and services because they run a restaraunt, unless people think the restaurant is super-cool. Just like today people like giving parties, or brewing their own beer, or gardening, or singing, or posting on message boards, all for free. I know several people who are into homebrewing and are constantly giving away beer they made. In Star Trek, anybody who wants replicator beer can have as much as they want for free. But you can only get a homebrewed beer if you either make it yourself or know a guy who knows a guy.

9

I imagine someone might go to a bartender for the same reason people like DJs, they can help you discover obscure Romulan ales from the southern continent etc.

I think self improvement includes more than shelter and basic nutrition, so you want to travel the galaxy and sample non-replicated alien food and get banged by Orions you are going to have to work on a starship.

Why would anyone want to be a colonist if you gain nothing? You must gain something or why do it.

I’m not a particularly political person or anything but I imagine the Fed as a functioning communist society, where basic needs are met but if you want more you have to contribute. Or every couch potato will randomly decide he wants to go see Risa and join in an orgy on the beach, I imagine the answer is no.

10

Nitpick: No humans are really required in any universe.

:wink:

11

In all the hundreds of books set in the Star Trek universe, don’t any of them deal with life outside of Starfleet?

12

Prime Directive. While it deals with the crew of the Enterprise(TOS), they are in civilian life and there are several mentions of earning money and transporter fees as well as other expenses not encountered by Starfleet personnel.

13

Why would anyone want to climb Mt Everest if they don’t gain something? You don’t climb Mt Everest because you recieve goods and services in exchange for climbing Mt Everest. You climb Mt Everest because climbing Mt Everest is awesome.

And so, people don’t become colonists or join Starfleet because they get a better quality of material goods in return. They do it because they can do whatever they like, and this is what they want to do, even though their standard of living will drop dramatically. Same reason people quit their Wall Street jobs and become goat farmers or teachers or musicians or stay at home moms. In a world where doing a job every day doesn’t get you a better standard of living, then the only reason to do a job is because you want to.

It’s not communism, which would mean that society controls the means of production, and distributes it to the citizens. It’s decentralized. You want a replicator, you just get a replicator. Now you’re a one-person economy.

I agree that, just as there are things today you can’t buy with money, in Star Trek there are plenty of things that can’t come out of a replicator. Like, say, a position in Starfleet. Or a vinyard in Normandy.

14

In Wrath of Khan, Kirk’s apartment is shown having a nice view of San Francisco bay. You can’t replicate that. I’m sure there’s somebody somewhere saying “Why can’t I have a ncie pad like that? It’s not fair. I’m being denied a fundamental right to live anywhere I please!”

:slight_smile:

Edit: My point is: humans are human no matter what. Strife will come about no matter what you try. Utopia is impossible.

15

But he atoned for the view by using a Commodore PET. So it all evened out.

(I know that doesn’t add anything to the discussion at hand, but even when I first saw the film in a theater the image was so mind-jarringly anachronistic that it’s stuck with me ever since.)

16

There absolutely are people who would chafe at a life where everything is handed to them. These same people would find worth in a life where everything they have – their home, their food, their entertainment – was earned, not simply received.

You don’t see it quite as often in regular day-to-day life because we’re certainly not post-scarcity, but take a game like Minecraft. There are two primary modes: Creative and Survival. Creative grants you instant immediate access to unlimited material. Whatever you need, you can instantly create thousands of it. In Survival mode, you have to pull your materials from the land around you, mining and digging and crafting and so on, and you have the option of introducing hostile monsters into the world you then have to defend yourself against.

So why would anyone choose Survival over Creative, and why would anyone choose monsters over none? In fact, a whole lot of people do. To them, what they build means more when they have had to work for it and protect it against hostile creatures. Being able to produce infinite materials just cheapens the whole thing.

I can easily see many people in the Federation feeling the same way. Life means little when your every need is seen to without being earned. If replicators are ubiquitous in first-world Federation life, then taking part in colonization, where you fight the elements of a new world and create a new, civilized place to live, where you made a difference and made something lasting, would sound awfully appealing.

17

“Articles of the Federation” is a year in the life of the Federation President. Highly influenced by the West Wing and a very good novel but kind of continuity heavy. If you don’t follow the other novel series you may be lost at times.

18

You sure can…have the windowless apartment walls be viewscreens with a net-distributed live feed of that view on them. Want it to look like you live on Mars tomorrow? Same deal…set the viewscreens to the Olympus Mons live feed.

With transporter technology, you can shop on Fisherman’s Wharf even if you live in Dhaka. Pretty much anyplace on Earth is reachable by transporter from any other place on Earth. The entire population of Earth could live in windowless studio apartments and still have spectacular views and access to the whole world.

19

I agree that the various incarnations of ST have been inconsistent about money and its place in the Federation economy. It seems that all of life’s necessities are provided to the people of Earth and the other major Federation planets, but things aren’t quite as cushy out in the colonies. Still, however little the average citizen needs money, it comes in handy when trying to acquire nonessential, luxury or unique goods or services, or in dealing with other cultures (such as the Ferengi) that regularly use money. Obviously replicators can’t make everything. There are several canonical references to Federation credits: Federation credit | Memory Alpha | Fandom

Starfleet is a volunteer organization, true. We don’t know if Starfleet personnel are paid, but I suspect they are. Uhura offers to buy a tribble from Cyrano Jones with Federation credits - how did she come by them otherwise? Dr. Crusher buys a bolt of cloth in the very first TNG episode and refers, IIRC, to “my shipboard [credit] account.” And as I’ve argued before, Starfleet has the power of imprisonment (after court-martial conviction) and potential death (when ordered on dangerous missions) over its members, and it enforces the law against Federation civilians (just ask Harry Mudd), as well as providing exploratory, diplomatic and military services. It clearly isn’t the Boy Scouts.

Yes, I remember that. Not a bad look at Federation civilian life. It was kind of funny how much for granted Kirk and the others took being able to use transporters, communications equipment and starships whenever they wanted to, without forking over payment.

20

[whine]But it’s not the same![/whine]

Trust me. You can’t please everybody all the time.