Has anybody here claimed that nobody ever likes alcohol at first taste, or are you shifting those goalposts a bit there?
All I said is that I doubt that most drinkers liked alcohol at first taste, and I see no reason to revise that opinion based on what’s been said here.
FWIW, I did mentally somehow delete the “even most” there. Yeah, reading for comprehension, if I had to bet, I probably would guess than somewhat less than half of people enjoyed alcohol from the first taste. So you’re probably right about that. I’m just so used to some people saying that nobody likes alcohol for its taste (much less the first time they’ve had it).
Well, I totally agree with you that that’s completely false.
For one thing, there may indeed be some or many people who have always liked alcohol, even as early as their very first exposure to it. (Although I’m not sure that even all the people who correctly remember enjoying alcohol as far back as early childhood are remembering, or remembering accurately, their very first experience of being exposed to it.)
And for another, more importantly, it’s perfectly possible to genuinely like a particular taste even if that liking was originally acquired through repeated exposure. “Nobody genuinely enjoys the taste of alcoholic beverages” makes no more sense than “nobody genuinely enjoys the taste of spicy peppers” or “nobody genuinely enjoys the taste of liver”, just because many people take a while to learn to like those flavors.
Well, here’s a little trashy thing about me. I need alcohol at this point, but can’t necessaily afford it. So I started making my own hooch. Fruit Juice, Yeast, snd Sugar. I let it ferment and come of age in my heater/utility closet. A couple of years ago, I found a dead Grackle in My Utility Closet (must have come in through venting?) I never heard him, but he must have perished slowly by the water heater and furnace, no egress.
So now, all Vintages come from my, “Dead Grackle Winery”.
Indeed, cannabis is pretty much THE No. 1 likeliest drug to trigger bipolar or schizo in vulnerable people. No. 2 would be stuff like meth, shrooms or LSD, then sedative dissociatives like ketamine, and at the lowest end stuff like alcohol and SSRIs.
Both my mother and my uncle experimented with drugs as teens. My uncle suffered from severe schizoaffective disorder starting at age 19 until his death in his 50s. My mother probably has delusional disorder, which is a form of psychosis where you believe things that are technically possible but highly unlikely to be true. She was plagued with paranoia as long as I remember (we are now no contact.) Her main fixation seemed to be about her family and how we were all conspiring against her, which ironically drove everyone away.
I have never done drugs or experienced psychosis (except possibly for two days postpartum), but I kind of live in fear about my son inheriting this. He already inherited autism from my family so it feels like anything’s possible.
I also have a relative on my husband’s side of the family who did drugs and immediately had her first psychotic break at age 19. It’s been several years and I don’t think it’s going to go away.
My dad was a highly functional alcoholic but I’m not claiming that booze is some sort of evil thing. It’s fair to claim that the social cost of alcohol is far more than cannabis.
I don’t doubt your anecdotes but you can’t claim a definite correlation based on them.
Tens of millions of Americans use cannabis every year both recreationally and therapeutically without psychotic breaks or any problems at all.
I’m sharing a personal anecdote about factors contributing to my reasons not to do drugs, in a thread called, “Did anyone else just say no?” Because I did say no and I continue to say no and these are my reasons. I don’t personally care whether you choose to do drugs, but I have good reasons, many of them based in evidence as well as personal, painful experience, not to risk my own mental health. I’ve got enough problems as it is.
Fair enough, it wasn’t clear to me that you had had pivoted to being back on topic.
I don’t want to merely pile on here, but you really, really have to understand how simple it is for us non-drinkers to not just not drink, but also avoid people who think alcohol is some weird be-all end-all. For someone like me, alcoholics, or whatever bowdlerized word you want to use for people who seek out alcohol all the time, live in a practically different universe.
I do not see, in any way shape or form why someone would think alcohol would be ubiquitous in my society.
If you’re around alcohol and heavy drinkers a lot, that’s your choice.
All three of those are things I can’t even remember eating for the first time and are all food items I love. I’ve been eating the first two since early childhood, and I’ve eaten sushi since my early teens (so for like 5 decades?). Japanese food is one of the “foreign” foods that’s very common in L.A…, and sushi’s been around a lot longer here than most other places. I think foie gras and bone marrow are things I had some trepidation about before eating, but loved them on first bite.
It’s entirely on topic to provide evidence for my reasons not to smoke pot. I was explicitly asked in this thread, by you, to do so. I’m going off topic to answer your question? Seriously? You might not find that evidence compelling enough for your particular situation, but I don’t understand why you’re pushing that on me. I’m allowed to be more risk-averse than you are, and to talk about why, and that’s way more on-topic for a thread about abstinence than all the people here talking about their own casual drug use.
And you mischaracterized my viewpoint. I posted evidence summarizing a pretty mixed bag of benefits and risks, and talked about the limitations of drug studies, which is damned honest of me considering my personal distaste for pot.
I, too, read your comments as more general than just, “why i said no”. But now that you’ve explained, that sounds like an excellent reason for you to avoid weed.
Yes, and I guess it wasn’t clear but I was even talking about adolescent use in specific, where the evidence is much more robust. Saying, in effect, “now that the data is out about habitual marijuana use in teens, I’m glad I never tried it then, thus risking getting hooked.”
Do I think it’s not that great for adults? Probably. But I admit the data isn’t as clear there.
As an adult, I’m one of those people who falls into the category of Better Not as I do have PTSD. I’ve heard it claimed by many that pot helps PTSD, but it seems the evidence points the other direction.
Even leaving those reasons aside, I just never had the desire. I’ve never been in a situation where I thought, “This would be so much better with a mind-altering substance.” I’ve occasionally thought it might help to numb emotional pain, but in those circumstances I’ve told myself addiction would make the problem so much worse, and that was sufficient to stop me.
And yes I do think alcohol has a very high social cost, while I wouldn’t describe it as evil or judge casual drinkers I think the world would be better off without it, on the balance. I think alcohol is far worse than weed. And I still drink sometimes, just not that often.
I think that there are two things here (maybe more)
I go to clubs very frequently for live music. Obviously there is a bar there and a lot of drinking. No one even notices that I am not drinking because even the drinkers won’t have a glass in their hands at all times. People I have known for years will forget and offer to buy me a drink. The activity is the music.
The other thing is people going out to get drinks. They will meet at a regular bar/pub and get a table and order drinks and maybe some food. It would be obvious that someone isn’t partaking. In this case the activity is the drinking (and talking of course). I never go to something like this unless someone is going to be there that I haven’t seen in a long time and that is my only opportunity to see them.
So for this non-drinker, alcohol and heavy drinkers are definitely ubiquitous.
Thanks. I think we are pretty much in agreement on the whole.
Thanks, I’m having a rough day so I’m sorry if I came across badly. If only I had some means to relax…
Doesn’t this absolutist, non experiential mentality, also have something in common with the Virgins of Delphi, Pythia. Roulette and Horoscope.
Up
Maiden virgins of delphi and and everyone is fucked up on mushrooms. And others. Group orgies.
What on earth are you talking about?