Did Baltimore kill Washington DC

I recall reading that it was assumed that the national capital would become a great industrial and regional center. But DC never quite developed into that. Was it due to its close proximity to Baltimore that hampered it?

Baltimore is a port of entry. Washington is not. That may be one big mark in Charm City’s favor.

Can you send big ships up the Potomac?

Can I plug a friend’s father’s book? Between Justice and Beauty by Howard Gillette
does an excellent job detailing the history of DC, and goes quite a long way towards explaining why the city is as screwed up as it is. A really great read, very well done.

As to the question, there are a lot of factors as to why DC never achieved the goal of commercial center. Where Baltimore fits in is with the famous (by Monopoly standards, anyway) B&O railroad. Early on in DC’s history, there was something of a race between the DC - (yikes! Can’t remember where right now!) canal and the Baltimore & Ohio railroad. Whichever was completed and became established first would attract a great deal of trade to itself to the relative detriment to cities around it. Keep in mind that DC is on the Chesapeake Bay, very good for commerce. Unfortunately (for DC) the B&0 had congressional support (DC statehood is not a new issue) and was established well before the canal was. Even when it was clear that there was no reason to build the canal, it had enough momentum to continue being constructed, much to the slim coffers of early DC.

That was about as good as my memory can do on short notice. Go get the book or find it in a library. It is our capitol, we should know a bit about it. And you will probably be able to correct me :stuck_out_tongue:

Don’t you know? When New Yorker Alexander Hamilton made his Faustian bargain with agrarian Thos. Jefferson, removing the US capital from New York City and moving it south to the rural swampland that is now Washington D.C., the gods decreed that the new capital city would forever be cursed because it was created from such a stupid agreement.

And so it stands today. Washington is nothing more than a second-rate also-ran, and NYC is virtually the capital of the world. Harharhar!

IIRC, DC remained pretty much a 3rd-rate town until well into the XXth century.

Industrial hubs tend to grow where they do, not where a committee decrees. I’d say that if there ever was a theory that DC would become a major industrial center, it would have been short-lived. I can see how it could have been held in the 1700’s, since it’s on the “fall line” – at the head of navigation for sailing boats and with access to hydropower to move mills. But with the advent of heavy, powered industry and large oceangoing vessels, Baltimore and Norfolk made far better trade ports and thus more logical industrial hubs. Also, the very nature of the District of Columbia’s governeance for most of its history (ward of Congress) didn’t make for the most favorable climate for business growth. Besides, a lot of Washington was swamp.

When growing “artificial” capitals like Washington-DC, Brasilia or Canberra, you have a greater challenge than when picking an existing provincial city and decreeing it to be the new capital (Ankara, Bonn) or keeping it near an established sister city (Delhi/New Delhi). In those cases, at least there has been established that somebody saw opportunities and needs for organized urban/industrial activity in the general vicinity.

Of course, if you’re Peter the Great, you can command your nation to do business thru your new capital or else.

jrd

DC is on the Bay??? It’s only about 140 miles to the Bay along the Potomac (give or take–it’s roughly a two hour drive to the end of St. Mary’s County, at the mouth of the Potomac). No clue how long it would take by ship.

Bear in mind that Alexandria was a thriving port when DC was founded. Obviously, though, as ships got larger and inland transportation developed, Norfolk and Baltimore made for more efficient ports (I forget when the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal opened, but I think it was in the mid-1800s–providing quicker access to the Atlantic and points north from Baltimore).

And yes, BobT, big ships can get up the Potomac–that’s why the Wilson Bridge has a drawbridge. Not your huge ocean-going cargo ships, though. My understanding is that, other than for large sailboats, most of the openings of the bridge are for the delivery of newsprint for the Washington Post, though I guess that’s likely to have changed since they moved their presses to VA and MD (Springfield and College Park, I believe).

What’s interesting is that DC has become a major hub of technology now in the Information Age. There are two technology hubs in the area (I-270, and Dulles Toll Road), and it’s probably the largest tech area on the east coast.

(Awaiting someone from NC to correct me.)

um… does anyone know what I was thinking? Sorry, my bad. I was confusing DC with New London, CT. Sure I was.

We did at one point have the Washington Naval Yard, which finished the giant naval guns we’re so desperately trying to preserve, since we can’t make 'em anymore.

Largely by accident, and then by convenience, the Chesapeake became the inlet of choice for trade. Fredricksburg, VA was once the where the action was. Still is, as far as small college towns go.

DC was for the majority of its history was a sleepy town that had two seasonal attractions: Congress and baseball. It was too hot in the summer to legislate, and too cold in the winter to want to stay there. It is unsuitable for most reasonable things. Thats why we managed to keep the more annoying of the two. Now, however, the population of Milwaukee flows into business centers and leaves them almost vacant daily.

When you call the Baltimore ticket line, the marketers are careful to answer “Orioles,” and not “Baltimore Orioles.”

DC suffered the worst by having their Major League Baseball team stolen from them twice. Or was it three times? Oh, sure, big bad Baltimore rates a football and a baseball team. But the Senators? Forgetaboutit.

First in war, first in peace, last in the American League. I’ll live to see the day when we wish we could forfeit again.

There is an NBA team and an NHL team in DC. That’s got to count for something.

Of course, your NFL franchise has fled to Maryland and is owned by a psychopath.

Uh, Bob, DC still has an NFL team, the rather offensively named Redskins. The Baltimore Ravens used to be the Cleveland Browns. The current Cleveland Browns are an entirely new incarnation.

Yes, but I believe Bob’s point was the that Washington Redskins no longer actually play in Washington, but instead in FedEx Field* in Prince George’s County, Maryland. Akin to the New York Giants actually playing in Northern New Jersey.

[sup]*Raljon? What kind of flipping name is Raljon for a football stadium? Cripes, that was the first time I felt happy that a football team sold the naming rights for its stadium.[/sup]

The reference was to the fact that the Redskins don’t actually play in DC. They play in Maryland. But if the Giants can say they are from NY, I guess the Redskins can say they are from DC.

Bob’s right about the psycopath thing. Every week, it’s amazing to see what stupid things the Redskins do. A couple of weeks ago it was PA announcer chanting “Ravens Suck!” to whip the crowd into a frenzy, not to mention making noise while the other team was lined up for plays. Had to pay a fine for those. The Redskins recently charged the opposing team $120 to park their team buses at the stadium (money refunded once the press discovered the story). There’s more. Much more.

So much to respond to. Let’s do it in one post.
[ul]
[li]The C&O Canal was never much of a success, since the decades it took to dig it straddled the advent of the steam engine. Once the canal got to Georgetown (once a port in its own right), it actually went over the Potomac River in a surry/bridge! It then went down the Virginia shoreline to Alexandria. But since trains were getting things to Baltimore quicker and there was less boat time from Baltimore to the open seas, DC got trounced.[/li]
[li]There are two drawbridges in the DC area: the aforementioned Wilson Bridge, the only drawspan on an interstate highway, IIRC; and the Sousa bridge over the Anacostia (formerly Eastern Branch {of the Potomac}). The latter is for getting Navy and MSC ships to the Washington Navy Yard. And let me tell you, nothing puts a damper on a quick interstate trip like waiting 40 minutes for 1 stupid ship to go through the Wilson Bridge Span. (Not to mention {OK, so I am} that the bridge itself is only 3 lanes each way, but the highways leading up to it are 4 lanes.)[/li]
[li]The Washington Redskins used to be the Boston Redskins, which used to be the Boston Braves. Why the @!#?@! they changed from Braves to Redskins is a mystery to me. But they moved to DC because the owner 1) lived in DC, 2) was deeply insulted that the championship game against the Green Bay Packers was not covered in the Boston papers at all, but rather a girls field hockey game.[/li]
(Side note: Is Green Bay Packers Organization the longest continuous franchise in the NFL. The above story was from the 1930’s.)

[li]It’s DC’s fault for losing the Redskin’s home field. Talks kept breaking down between Cooke and the power that be in DC. Cooke almost built in Virginia, about 2 miles south of the Pentagon. But many locals didn’t want that there (except the restaurants), plus its height and stadium lights would’ve interferred with flight operations at Nat’l Airport.[/li]
Their practice field is still in Virginia, about 40 miles west of FedEx Field. With the Beltway, you don’t even have to drive through Washington to get between the two sites. :smiley:
[/ul]

I’d wager a lot of that has to do with dropouts and ancillaries of govt-funded groups/agencies (like the NSA, who one of my computer engineer friends moved there to work for).

I just returned to FL after living in King George, VA, 20 miles east of Fredburg, for the last 3 years… NEVER in those years did I consider F’burg to be “where the action is” …did I miss something?

Granted, it was kinda busy there in the mid 1800’s what with the war and all, but when the big controversy is which pear is the official emblem of the city’s New Year’s celebration… <shrug>

John, actually, Raljon was the name of the incorporated town in PG County that Redskins Stadium sat on. Jack Kent Cooke, as you probably know, coerced his way into getting the land named after his two sons, Ralph and Jon.

Now, FedEx Field sits in Landover, where it belongs.

Still awaiting Senators 3.0…

two cents worth -

First - the Redskins:

They were named the Braves after the baseball Boston Braves now found in Atlanta. After an ownership change (and a move out of the Braves’ ball park) they were re-named the Redskins.

Both names did not refer to aboriginal Americans but instead to the participants in the Boston Tea Party protest against British taxes.

Now of course they do.

Second - DC as an economic base.

Exactly what the founders intended. They were afraid if they located the capital in a major economic area, the national government could be influenced either by the surrounding state or (as had just happened in Paris) by “the mob”.

So, a sleepy backwater was just what they wanted. Pennsylvania was an orginal choice somewhere along the Susquehanna - Three Mile Island perhaps. Anyway in exchange for southern support to retire the national debt, Alexander Hamilton and George Washington got the capitol placed to the east of the small port of Georgetown, Maryland.

Third - the Canal

Good plantation owner that he was, George Washington wanted the new city to grow economically - and not be a drain on the taxpayers. Following on the canals built in England at the end of the 18th century, he initiated the C&O canal to link Washington (and Alexandria which was included in the orginal District of Columbia) and the Midwest (in this case, western Maryland). The canal needed Congressional support to get built (the success of the Erie canal helped) but just as it was being completed in the late 1820’s, American entreprenuers were bringing over the latest English innovation, the railroad. The Baltimore and Ohio railroad’s first run actually preceded the opening of the C&O canal.

So the canal was obsolete before it even opened. Localities and states fell over each other to grant subsidies to railroads, investors dumped tons of money into these companies that were the Internet stocks of their time, and the railroads tied the eastern port cities like Baltimore with river towns in the Midwest.

Not surprisingly, Congress was unwilling to waste any more money on growing the District of Columbia. Congress had even built a canal linking the capitol with the Potomac river. It became an unused, open sewer and had to be filled in - it’s called Constitution Avenue today. The swamps near the river were also filled in over time, mostly because they were a nuisance. The terms Foggy Bottom and Watergate remain. The Virginia side - the city and county of Alexandria were given back to Virginia in the early 1840’s as the District didn’t need em.

Finally - High Tech Northern Virginia

Washington started to grow with FDR’s New Deal but really exploded with WWII and the Cold War. Much of this growth was in Northern Virginia as private sector high tech vendors wanted to be close to the Pentagon. Communications of course has applications beyond the military but it’s still nice to be located near a big client. Low land value, low taxes, and an ample supply of military officer-grade retirees in their 40s accelerated the growth. As we near the first decade of the 21st century, there is a question whether this growth rate can be sustained.

looking at the diamond shape of the D of C, it seems pretty clear that part of it was supposed to go through the Alexandria part of northern Virginia. What happened? Why didn’t VA cough up some land like Maryland evidently did?

Nixon - Don’t you mean Arlington and not Alexandria in the above post? I know Arlington used to be part of DC and was given back to VA (adding Arlington’s border to DC also shows how DC used to be square), but never knew Alexandria was part of DC.