Not here in America sadly. It’s been repeatedly delayed-- latest rumor is we may not see it until April of next year. :eek:
That sucks. I’ve heard that the first ten parts of S4 have been punted back to April in the US, with the second ten parts not showing 'til 2009! Sky here apparently have the right to show the first ten starting in January. They showed the first season before the US, but I’ve no idea what the broadcast plans are this time around (or what the state of filming is).
Actually, I’ve thought of something that may be a bit spoilerish. There’s an appearance by “something” in Razor that makes “its” first on-screen appearance in S3, but it’s not a major reveal.
Maybe, maybe not. But’s let keep something in mind here. Adama was apparently a war hero as a fighter pilot. As the series start he’s about the retire as commander of a ancient, decommissioning capital ship. He never made admiral.
In 40 years of peace did his war hero status and the sheer inertia of his seniority result in him rising even that high? Was he always just pastured out to a virtually meaningless backup command low these many years? Compared to the much younger Cain, who did make admiral ( and not, I’m guessing, based on her charm 
) and was given a top-of-the-line battlewagon? Tigh certainly seems to have benefited from nepotism at the top. Was Adama too unconventional, to in your face? Doesn’t seem like him. Could it be he just never made the grade and the necessity forced him into waters well over his head? Same as a certain education secretary?
It wouldn’t shock me , is all :). Not that Tigh and Adama haven’t shown signs of technical battlefield ability - they obviously weren’t disqualified on that front. But maybe they never had the other intangibles of command in the first place.
My problem with BSG, which is at times a fantastic show, is that it requires incredible amounts of suspension of disbelief and rational thought for huge numbers of reasons relating to huge numbers of plotlines. BUT, it also doesn’t “feel” like a show that should require suspension of disbelief.
Compare it to something like 24, which is obviously preposterous from the get-go, and which doesn’t even remotely take itself seriously. I’m happy to turn off large parts of my brain when I watch 24. But BSG has this super-gritty look, this “oh, everyone is shades of gray, we’re not just cheesy fiction, we’re super-serious analysis of deeply complex individuals” vibe. But at the same time, the writers don’t seem to give a fig for science, economy, logic or consistency. When I’m watching 24 or Heroes or Lost, I’m happy to just enjoy the ride. When I’m watching The West Wing or Deadwood or The Wire, I’m being much more critical. BSG feels like it should fit into the latter category.
It certainly doesn’t help that so many of the standalone episodes seem to be come up with backwards… that is, the writers decide they want to make a point about (some real life issue). So they shoehorn it into the storyline, via never-before and never-since discussed issues, and then it’s forgotten.
There’s been some damn fine TV over the course of the series, but I find it overall unsatisfying.
Strangely enough, this kind of sentiment is exactly the type of thing that the characters are shown struggling with. You’re lucky that you don’t seem to have any doubts about what you would do.
I think this is an important question that Moore and company are taking seriously … what do you do? What does survival actually mean? Doesn’t it mean that each individual still gets to gather information, exercise his or her judgment, and have a say in the decisions that affect him or her? Does crisis automatically mean autocracy?
Even if the answer is “yes,” how do you know you’ve got the right autocrat? We’ve seen several of them in action - Roslin, Adama, Tigh, Cain, Baltar. Do you just shut up and obey the one that happens to be holding the gun right now?
This is question of human existence. We can’t all live like we’re members of the military and obey, obey, obey for some unknown number of generations into the future. Maybe some people would rather just go extinct than submit to that.
acsenray, I agree that the status quo of living in a military environment cannot continue indefinitely, but they haven’t been at it for generations. They’ve been at it for ~2 years or so.
As for the right autocrat, you pretty much have to choose the one most responsible for keeping you separate from the Cylons at the time. That automatically takes away Roslin and Baltar. You might not get a good choice, but the person in charge of Galactica is the person in charge. No Galactica, and you have extinction.
I just don’t think your conclusions are obvious. The show has given enough situations that demonstrate to us that the motives and judgments of each of these characters is not so easily evaluated, especially for a civilian in the fleet. How do you know? “Adama is the commander, so he must be the best dictator?” I’m afraid that looking at it as an objective observer, I find it difficult to adjudge this a rational conclusion. As a member of the fleeing civilian population, it’s even less clear.
And frankly, this bit here – As for the right autocrat, you pretty much have to choose the one most responsible for keeping you separate from the Cylons at the time. That automatically takes away Roslin and Baltar. – makes absolutely no sense to me at all. What is the train of logical thought here? What do your terms mean?
Actually, what I think you’re missing is that you’re being told that Adama can order all the civilians killed, and therefore he should be in charge.
So, basically, “bloodthirsty dictator” seems to be seems to be the way things should be, according to at least one person in this thread.
-Joe
Well, I agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed here. I liked the ride a whole lot, for the most part. The first season was pretty damn good but I’ll express some of the low points.
I really hated the various throwaway episodes they occasionally have. Remember the Boxing episode? How about the Black Market episode? I suppose they are trying to make it more character driven, but in the end, it simply isn’t a character driven show. If they wanted us to care about the characters more they should have thought about that crap in the beginning.
It does get cheesy at times. How many times do we need to see Adama and Son blur the lines between family and military.
“look son, I just want to under-”
“Understood, Sir” salutes and leaves
I am sick of that crap. Plus you have the whole thing between Baltar and Six. It always seemed like a pathetic attempt to shoehorn some TnA for the sci-fi geeks. Exactly where Seven of Nine came from.
But on the other hand, there are simply times when it’s effin great TV. For example
The time when Adama frakking does the jump into New Caprica?! How about that shit? And then when Apollo comes back? Jesus!
I do like how they made Starbuck seem more vunerable. Jesus in the beginning they were really cramming it down my throat that “Starbuck can do whatever the guys can.” She smokes cigars, plays poker with the boys, blah blah blah. Oooh, Starbuck has a hidden talent! It’s really annoying how they want me to really love her despite the fact that she’s unconventional. Seems a bit strange.
But after hearing that they would end the show, I was upset, then I realized, hey this is gonna be awesome. Starbuck has been to earth and the next season is gonna be great. Hopefully they’ll quit with this crap they’ve been pulling.
In the end, I suppose that’s the problem with a show that follow essentially one big story-arc. Star Trek TNG, for example almost never had a story-arc. There was obviously Q but 90 percent of their episodes were self-contained. But in BSG, any story that doesn’t enhance the overall plot seems pointless…
Wasn’t he transferred to the Galactica from the Valkerie after the snafu with the secret mission? I got the impression that his superiors were unhappy with how things had gone.
The weak part about me discussing any of this, is that I’ve only seen the first four or five episodes of season three ( I plan to eventually - and don’t worry, spoilers bother me not at all ). So, could be :D.
But despite lacking virtually any textual support, I’m gonna run with my theory anyway, for the amusement value ;). Adama was a half-competent, charismatic war hero, promoted based on political expediancy, persistance and nepotism. Sure his crew adored him - he looked good in a uniform, had that worldly gravitas, was an old war hero and despite the outward sterness was the kind of pussycat that’d look the other way while one of his flight officers boinked his senior non-com. But he was a wheezy old hack, neither the best nor the brightest, just the luckiest.
The rest of the senior fleet officers used to joke that if the worst came to worst, they’d send in the webelos - then if all else failed, Adama. Then they’d laugh and sip their brandies :p.
PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS SEASON 3 here, thanks. I haven’t seen it as per the OP. Or at least put in Spoiler boxes over ALL the spoilers Merkwurdigliebe.
No, we are saying that he is a bad leader because he didn’t arrest the President elect for killing half of the remaining human race either intentionally or through criminal negligence by allowing a NUCLEAR BOMB to get into the hands of the terrorists. The suspicion on that one alone would have been enough to dissolve the government.
Tamerlane I am saying he is a bad leader not based upon back story but based on the actions he has taken during the series. I don’t expect him to be Admiral Kane, but as much as she was too hard perhaps he is too soft. They should be pulling the Extinction card a lot more often.
Ascenray They are living in a state of emergency. They need to worry about basic survival at this point not longer term cultural existential issues like whether or not they are democratic.
One thing I think people are missing is the way groups operate at different scales. A feudal communal system would probably be the ideal. Have people whose job it is to manage domestic logistics while the military has total and complete dominion over foreign policy. That there is money at all is a grievous mistake. There should be lists of needs compiled on each ship and shared between ships with a decision making body that decides who gets what based on a hierarchy of need. Ships that grow food, mine or manufacture are frankly more important than ships that people simply live on. You keep the vital organs of your society healthy.
We aren’t necessarily talking about a micromanaged autocracy, Adama wouldn’t have the time for that, there should be civilian leadership, but under the auspices of a military dictatorship. Feudalism would probably be the ideal system at that scale.
I was sort of pissed off when they allowed the abortion to go ahead. The human race is near extinction and you want to kill off your child, how despicable. Those sorts of luxuries that people expect under liberal capitalism do not mesh with the harsh reality that they face.
I think the reality that needs to be faced is that they ARE NOT free. It’s not a question of whether they SHOULD be free or not. They are under siege and need to accept that. Rationing is the only rational response to a siege. Any freedom brought by a permissive system would only be illusory as it is.
One thing that’s interesting though is it does seem like it is sort of devolving into a tribal Patriarchate, what with Lee Adama and Dualla commanding Pegasus as a couple and the military in place with a clear familial line of succession with the Adamas.
All in all the writing is pretty good. I think these issues are quite interesting and I can sort of see how it would work out they way it has. One of the most interesting things about it though is that it really does seem like there is a strong death wish playing out in the Fleet, that many people don’t want to survive. I think that the abortion episode was one of the most poignant demonstrations of that, as were the Revolutionary Cylon sympathizers lead unknowingly by a Cylon.
Adama may not be the best dictator, but he is in charge of the only warship. So unless you waste resources on a coup, as long as he is doing his damnedest to keep the Cylon fleet off of your back, he is the leader. Period. When you settle down (as they tried), then you can have elections and all the other crap. Right now, the fleet is in a constant fight for its life, and there should be no time for any luxuries such as debating who is going to be leader. Every last civilian in the fleet should realize that any effort not going into sustaining the human race, and that includes fighting off the enemy committed to causing your extinction, is detrimental to the human race. If someone doesn’t believe it, there should be 10 people ready to correct him/her. Everything else is navel gazing, and when you are down to a population of less than 50,000, one aging warship, and a less-than-stellar crew, the human race can’t afford navel-gazing. With 50,000 people, the idiot political system they set up is a waste of resources. Every senator, every cabinet member and advisor, every journalist should be joining the military effort or helping to grow food, repair ships, or fabricate parts. And if they are too inept for that, they should be cooking and cleaning for those who can.
If you are refering to me, you are 100% wrong. The fact that Adama is the only thing standing between the civilians and extinction is why he should be in charge.
Well, you could make the case that he’d have to implicate himself - he gave Baltar the bomb. Without really confirming why it was necessary. Without later asking himself, when he began to have suspicions of Baltar’s motives, “hey, maybe it was not a good idea to give the guy a nuke. Let’s see what he’s doint with it.” I don’t recall they ever again touched on the “Cylon detector” again, or if Baltar was actively testing.
There have been some farfetched ideas on the show…I personally don’t think the New Caprica plotline was one of them. If he had exerted authority to prevent it, he may have had a mutiny or rebellion, which would have been just as disastrous. I think the nuke plotline demonstrated this - he was losing control of the fleet. It could have just as easily been the Galactica that got blown up, with devastating results.
Even if it makes sense to us that he should be in charge to preserve the human race, there were people believing that the Cylons were willing to negotiate a cease-fire, and that’s why they were clamoring for non-military rule, and they were being the ignorant ones. He was effectively outnumbered with a conflicting options - do all he can to preserve the human race, or fight them if they weren’t going along with that.
So, bad leader or not. I don’t have much of an opinion. Flawed, for sure. Also heroic. But maybe not entirely competent (and aware of that).
No, it doesn’t seem I am. Your idea seems to be “the military protects them, therefore the military should be in charge”. Because, it turns out, the military is always protecting someone from someone else.
So, they should always be in charge, correct?
-Joe
First of all, wasn’t it Adama that gave Baltar the nuke? Second, they’ve had Cylon infiltrators in their midst from before Day One - how does anyone know that nuke was the one Baltar had?
Besides, the characters seemed to have forgotten the nuke - that put me under the impression that everyone thought Baltar had used it (as in, used it up) to make his oh-so-useful Cylon Detector.
This thread is interesting in that it makes it nice and clear how dictatorships can come about so easily.
-Joe
Absurd conclusion that ignores the circumstances the show is built on.
The human race is down to well under 50,000 people protected by a single aging battleship and is being hunted into extinction by a numerically and technologically (but not tactically or strategically) superior foe. That is a martial law situation if ever there was one.
To tie it to actual current events, General Musharraf is not protecting Pakistan from a clear and imminent danger threat to completely annihilate all Pakistanis, wherever they may be. There is no need for a military rule - and I would make a strong case there never was a need for a military coup and military rule despite the problems rampant with the previous administration.
It is not a one-size-fits-all answer, and if you keep trying to shoehorn it into one, then I’ve got nothing more to add.
Okay, let’s look at it this way. If they don’t do what he wants them to do, if they just plain refuse, Adama does what, exactly?
-Joe
Leave them behind to fend for themselves. Obviously, they believe they can do better. Are the Cylons still farming humans like they were on Caprica?
IMO, it would be easier to work with 30,000 willing followers than 45,000 mixed. The biggest problems are that the 15,000 are likely not concentrated in all one ship, and while Galactica is the single most important ship in the fleet, there are several other critical ships providing for supplying the fleet. But if Captain Ahab of the Pequod wants to go his own way, I’d tell everyone who wants to follow Ahab to transfer over to the Pequod, and any one the Pequod who wants off to get off and join a ship that’s following the battleship.
Why? Did you think I would have him fire on the (made up)Pequod? That’s why your assumptions are 100% wrong.