Note to self: get proudfootz his first mirror for Christmas.
edited to add: On the other hand, he does do a pretty good imitation of the Black Knight from Monty Python And The Holy Grail.
What photographic evidence are you talking about?
The film shows Kennedy being shot. The evidence show why he moves how he moves. The modern, computer aided or computer produced shows that Kennedy was shot from where Oswald was.
I told you (plural) so. I told you so. I told you so.
That Kennedy was trying to end the Cold War is just as nutty, BTW. The same Kennedy who invaded Cuba, who nearly got into a Hot War during the Missile Crisis, that battled with Khrushchev and Castro every step of the way. Yeah, he was an anti-Cold Warrior.
Honestly, proudfootz, I would really and truly believe that the Zygons did it over your CT nonsense. Only a superadvanced race of alien technology could cover up its tracks so completely and thoroughly as to not leave a shred of evidence other than what we have that positively points to Oswald as the lone gunman.
Yes, the film appears to show Kennedy reacting to some shots while the limousine is carrying him from one location to the next with regard to other things in the Plaza.
Interestingly, the analysis of the dictabelt recording shows a pattern of impulses with acoustic signatures that shows a match between the apparent shots and the locations of the motorcade and the surrounding buildings.
One problem with reconstructing a real life event with a computer animation is that a great deal of fudging can occur (you may have head of the acronym GIGO). The link above regarding Dale Myers, for example, shows graphically how Myers had to actually change the location of Kennedy’s wounds to ‘prove’ Oswald was a shooter.
Modern scholarship has shown that while Kennedy did go along with the Bay of Pigs operation he inherited from his predecessor based on false assurances that Cuba would rise against Castro, he refrained from actually invading or supporting the attackers. He subsequently sacked the responsible parties and pursued a more diplomatic course.
There was nearly a hot war over the Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was Kennedy who resisted the urging of everyone around him to escalate the conflict. Instead he initiated a hotline to the Russians to avoid this kind of problem in the future.
Kennedy’s initiatives to seek a world of cooperation with the community of nations were in contrast to the bloodthirstiness of the Washington elites who surrounded him.
As I said, if you even believe in the Zygons over mundane historical facts, then it is beyond me to help you.
Your emotional commitment to your cherished beliefs is almost admirable.
I hate to break it to you, but a mirror will not have your image still showing when it arrives on my end.
Question for others: Can anyone else make sense of that statement? 
I truly have no idea what this means.
It’s pretty simple. Kennedy was shot twice, from behind him. Oswald was behind him. If one looks where Kennedy was, and Connally was, the bullet lines up perfectly from Oswald, through Kennedy to Connally. No smoke and mirrors, no games. That is what the photographic evidence shows.
What doesn’t line up is anything from the grassy knoll.
Why you would think the new organizations that have done these computer simulation would make up data to prove that Oswald killed Kennedy is beyond me. If ABC could prove a conspiracy, they would be printing money with people watching their network.
You mentioned Occam’s razor earlier. What that would tell you is that what is the simplest is most likely the case. And that’s that Oswald shot three times from his work place and killed the President in what isn’t all that hard a shot.
No U.
You’re welcome.
proudfootz, which photographic evidence are you talking about? If it is the YouTube video, can you point out which are the witnesses you said had testified that they were running towards the source of gunfire, and where they said that this was the case?
Where in the article is this shown?
One objection made is that Connally was taller than Kennedy, which is purported to demonstrate that Myers therefore had to move the location of the wounds. And it is true that Connally was taller. It is also true that the back seat of the limousine was higher than the front. (Cite - pdf.) (Let me know if you need me to point you to the correct part of that article, or there are many other cites).
Regards,
Shodan
If there is a claim being seriously made (it’s hard to tell - there’s too much smirking going on) that there were five shots, what were the trajectories of these shots and based on what evidence?
This crap isn’t even funny any more-it’s pathetic. When someone describes those that hold majority opinion based on the evidence available as “Lone Nutter Theorists”, as if the prevailing opinion is actually a crazy minority opinion, then it’s time to back slowly away and step out of the room.
“You can’t use logic to dissuade someone who didn’t use logic to reach their viewpoint in the first place.” ~UNKNOWN
I’m sorry to learn that.
While I understand that is a theory held by some, that seems to leave out some evidence.
Other than witnesses who heard a shooter there, Kennedy’s reaction to the head shot which would seem to agree with a shot from that location, and a recording which would seem to confirm a shot from that location corresponding to the head shot.
That is an interesting ‘what if’ scenario, but it hardly comes withing a lightyear of being a fact in any meaningful sense of the word.
The thing about Occam’s Razor is that the theory you settle on should account for all the facts. So in the case of the dictabelt recording, it is simpler to simply accept that it does in fact record a real murder that actually happened rather than any extravagant hypothesis that the correspondence between the tape and the established facts are mere coincidence.
The other thing is that simplicity is not the be-all and end-all requirement of a theory, it need also explain all the facts and be plausible. AFAICT Oswald had no motive, no opportunity, and apparently did not fire a long gun on that day.
The shots aren’t necessarily easy, either. Never a very good shot to begin with, Oswald would have had to shoot through trees from a cramped position at a target moving away from him, at a complex angle away from him from left to right while going downhill.
True, someone could have got lucky, if we are going to continue on the coincidence jag.
“…there’s too much smirking going on”
Jean Hill, for example, has stated that she went to the area where she witnessed a shooter. Other witnesses have testified that they heard a shooter in that area.
Victoria Adams
Danny Garcia Arce
Virgie Baker (née Rackley)
Jane Berry
Charles Brehm
Ochus Campbell
Faye Chism
John Chism
Harold Elkins
Ronald Fischer
Buell Wesley Frazier
Dorothy Garner
Jean Hill
S. M. Holland
Ed Johnson
Dolores Kounas
Paul Landis
Billy Lovelady
Austin Miller
A.J. Millican
Luke Mooney
Thomas Murphy
Jean Newman
William Newman
Kenneth O’Donnell and David Powers
Roberta Parker
Frank Reilly
Arnold Rowland
Edgar Smith
Joe Marshall Smith
Forrest Sorrels
James Tague
Roy Truly
Harry Weatherford
Seymour Weitzman
Otis Williams
Mary Woodward
Abraham Zapruder
There were also police up there investigating a possible shooter. Investigating what if no one believed there was a shooter there?
To focus on the illustrations, here we can observe Myers is jiggling around his animation trying to force the facts to support his theory.
http://www.patspeer.com/_/rsrc/1268954031399/itsthesh-full.jpg
Myers is trying to persuade us that the back wound and the throat wound are from one bullet. He raises the location of the back wound, but can’t seem to raise it high enough to get any better than a flat trajectory for a shot allegedly coming from above.
You’re wrong.
Your hackneyed schtick was never funny in the first place.
Do you ever get tired of making easily disproved claims?
"According to a new FiveThirtyEight-commissioned SurveyMonkey poll of 5,130 adults, conducted Oct. 17 to Oct. 20, 2017, only 33 percent of Americans believe that one man was responsible for the assassination. "
This is consistent with most polls - so the fact is you are in the minority.
“You can’t use logic to dissuade someone who didn’t use logic to reach their viewpoint in the first place.” ~UNKNOWN
Especially if they additionally believe their fringe theory is really held by the majority. - Proudfootz Addendum
:rolleyes:
Dealey Plaza echoes explain what the witnesses “heard”. “Dark Side of the Moon” synchronizes with “The Wizard of Oz”. But they’re not related. And am I inferring correctly you mean “back and to the left” when you mention Kennedy’s reaction to the head shot? I can easily see Kennedy moving forward very slightly when hit in the head, then falling backward. I’d explain that by physics of the bullet hitting the skull, then his back muscles tightening, then relaxing. He simply followed the laws of physics and anatomy, as expected by a shot from behind.
The evidence shows that the dictabelt recorded sounds away from Dealey Plaza.
No opportunity? He brought a bag to work with him that he said contained “curtain rods”. Bugliosi listed witnesses who said they actually saw the rifle sticking out of the Depository window, right where Oswald was. As for motive, we can go into all sorts of reasons, but the bottom line there is he was an unstable sociopath, if not a psychopath.
He was a good enough shot. There were three shots. The first missed entirely, hitting the curb. Number 2 hit Kennedy in the back; the so-called “Magic Bullet,” which is anything but magic. The third hit Kennedy near the side of the head.
In fact, the third nearly missed him too. Ever question why there were three shots (or five, or a hundred), and not just one? Sure, he wasn’t that great a marksman, but he didn’t have to be.
Then there’s the angle. He couldn’t fire while the motorcade was coming toward him; that wouldn’t give a clear shot of Kennedy. So he waited until it turned the corner. That way, all eyes would be away from Oswald, and he could still fire.
Less smirk, more ballistics, please.
Adding to the simple logic of the assassination, we have to ask these questions. If it was truly a conspiracy:
Why Dealey Plaza? What was so special about that place and time to kill him?
What is the direct evidence there were other shooters? There is evidence in the Book Depository (planted, yeah, I know, but it was there), but if there were gunmen at the grassy knoll, under the street, behind the motorcade, by the railroad tracks, or any other place the CTers have claimed over the years, where is the actual evidence for them? Not just eyewitness testimony, but the hard evidence? I’d like evidence either from the site itself, or a documentary paper trail (think the Watergate tapes) showing that the Mafia, the Russians, the Cubans, or someone else was behind it.
The common thread I come across from CTers is that “someone” else was responsible. I’m no legal authority, so I don’t know if posthumous indictments are even possible, but I know there’s no statute of limitations on murder. Why, if it’s so obvious there was a conspiracy, no DA or other legal jurisdiction has been convinced to indict one or more parties?
If there truly was a conspiracy to defraud the United States (and the world) by assassinating the President of the United States, and it’s being covered up by “them” 55 years later, then the world we live in is really a fraud, or The Matrix, or The Truman Show, and we can’t believe anything we believe to be reality.
That would really be something, wouldn’t it? For “them” to cover up reality for more than five decades. To me, that’s part and parcel of why I don’t believe in a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.
To add to my previous post:
Oswald’s life and mental state, to the extent we can know it, logically shows him to be capable of performing an act such as killing another person; in this case the President. He was unhappy, unstable, and just about every “un-” you can think of. He wanted to be a big man, an important man. In reality, he was a failure in just about every way. He went to the Soviet Union to try be a success; they all but laughed him out of the country.
He was troubled. It’s hardly illogical to think he could’ve done it alone.
If these were mundane historical facts, then everybody would know them and agree with them.
I find it bizarre that you and bardos want to argue this without naming who the shooter was. Is it because any specific name could so easily be debunked in five seconds? Just pouring doubt over reality may seem to be a better tactic in that sense, but it doesn’t work. Instead you’re doing a spectacular job of showing the difference between reality-based arguments and conspiracy theories. I suppose we should thank you for discrediting your side so thoroughly but it’s sad to see someone spend so much energy on such a bad cause.
Which would almost be plausible if you are going to likewise dismiss the witnesses who claim they head shots from the TSBD.
Luckily, we have the dictabelt to confirm what the witnesses heard.
Cute!
Yes, neither your alleged ‘echoes’ or your most educational college experience is related to this discussion.
It’s good to know you have a hodge-podge of vague handwaving ‘explanations’ to help you hold on to your fringe beliefs.
This is just plain wrong.
I have it on good authority that even if this story is true, it is believed that any bullets that may have struck Kennedy or Connally came from a firearm and not a curtain rod.
Bugliosi listed witnesses who said they actually saw the rifle sticking out of the
I don’t believe Oswald was there at the time of the murder, so if there was a rifle barrel sticking out Oswald wasn’t holding it.
It’s easy to diagnose someone when you have no expertise and you haven’t examined your patient, is it?
I am familiar with this dogma.
Sure, more than one shot would likely indicate more than one shot was needed. If you really want to make sure Kennedy doesn’t leave Dallas alive, you’d have more than one shooter.
Really? The limousine had to come to a virtual stop to make the crazy hairpin turn right in front of the TSBD. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel with no escape for anyone in the limo.
http://jfkrunningthegauntlet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/sixth-floor-view-1963-1024x523.jpg
No trees in the way, and the shot gets easier every second instead of harder.
And as you said - the magical echoes would make sure no one would know where the shots came from. Or do you need to drop that claim for this part of your theory?
This is all speculation which we have all heard a thousand times before. Still not very persuasive after all these years.