I understand that investigations take time. The people who have been working so hard to blame Christie, without any facts to back up the unproven allegations, do not seem to understand that investigations take time.
There was a traffic jam in Ft Lee. A traffic jam initiated by Port Authority personel. The people in Ft Lee demanded that their mayor fix the problem. Sokolich called the Port Authority because this traffic jam was under the Port Authority’s jurisdiction. It took four days before Port Authority Foye was made aware of the problem and PA Foye immediately ordered that the non-study study lane reassignment be stopped.
Does your mayor normally call the governor’s office whenever he/she has a traffic jam? The Port Authority had jurisdiction over the Ft Lee entrance ramp to the I-95/GW Bridge tollbooths. The normal procedure would be to demand the Port Authority to fix a Port Authority problem.
Suppose it were true, Doorhinge. Exactly what kind of evidence would you expect to exist?
I would expect that the communications between Christie and his staff or the Port Authority would be verbal, either in person or via the telephone–and thus no written proof would exist. You might think that the staff or Port Authority officials would testify Christie was involved–but everyone involved is a Christie loyalist and thus wouldn’t betray him.
If they were *really *loyal, they would have thrown themselves under the bus, and saved him the embarrassment.
They did, but the bus was stuck in traffic.
You really didn’t expect someone to let that slowball past did you?
You seriously underestimate the importance of the GWB. An estimated 102 million people cross it every year. An average of more than 279,000 per day. If all those people were on the bridge at once it would be the 67th largest city in the US. Just behind Toledo and ahead of Newark, the largest city in New Jersey.
It’s hardly surprising that the mayor was calling the governor’s office.
I’m not underestimating the importance of the GW Bridge, seriously or otherwise. Mainline traffic on I-95 heading into NYC were able to use two additional tollbooth lanes during the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. Traffic across the GW Bridge wasn’t restricted. Mainline traffic thru the tollbooths would have actually improved, until it ran into the usual NYC traffic and came to a halt.
How does the numbers of people using the GW Bridge prove that Christie was actually involved with the plans of Port Authority Wildstein and Baroni to create a traffic jam in Ft Lee?
I would expect Kelly or Port Authority Wildstein or Port Authority Baroni to testify that they had previously discussed creating a traffic jam on the rabbi’s street, or singling out Ft Lee for a traffic jam, with Christie.
Wildstein, Baroni, and Kelly are in really deep shit. They could be facing criminal charges and they’ll definitely be named in multiple civil suits. I imagine that one of them can be persuaded to trade a reduced sentence for “actual proof” that Christie was involved in the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. If any such proof exists.
The issue is and was not traffic on the GWB (not the George W. Bush GWB). Th issue was slamming Fort Lee and and many, many people for four days for politics, whether Christie is directly involved or not.
Problem is, doorhinge, it you’re confusing proof with evidence. Proof is deductive, removing all other possible alternatives and having one irrefutable fact, like the wooden stake through Cheney’s blood pump. Evidence can be inductive, if enough of it piles up, you are justified in holding that what the evidence suggests is likely true, the more evidence piles up, the more likely it is.
A bit like evolution: it is a massive construct of inductive evidence, there is not one single fact that “proves” it, there is a massive amount of evidence that, taken as a whole, makes any other explanation very improbable.
He didn’t know this, he didn’t know that, he didn’t know diddly squat? Doesn’t help anything, he is elected and entrusted with power. Of course he can delegate that power, he is expected to, but the power still has his fingerprints on it, he is responsible, he is *supposed *to know.
Can’t prove he’s guilty? OK, then, we are not shipping him off to Club Fed for macrame classes. What we are left with he’s either a crook, or simply very, very bad at this job. Not a good candidate for promotion to greater responsibilities.
That’ll do. I don’t want to see him in jail, but even more so, I don’t want to see him in the Oval Orifice. (shudder).
Maybe you could explain that to Oldeb? It appears that there is still a lot of confusion about what actually happened during those four days.
If you find proof that Christie was actually involved in the Great Lane Reassignment debacle, I’ll help you stir the tar pot, gather feathers, or waterboard him, if you think that would solve anything.
(shortened for clarity)
If enough “credible” evidence piles up, I would be justified in holding any head of an Executive Branch guilty of an action/inaction/incompetence. Sokolich has proven to be incompetent when he couldn’t figure out how to fix the traffic jam in Ft Lee. It’s a good thing that Port Authority Foye stepped up to the challenge.
If the “evidence” is limited to she said/she said, or they went to high school at the same time, or they appeared at a photo meet-and-greet together, there is no “credible” evidence.
There isn’t even any evidence that Christie is guilty of the most often cited, unproven rumor of Christie wanting to punish Sokolich for not supporting him.
There is evidence that Kelly and Port Authority Wildstein were contemplating an earlier traffic jam. Maybe the rabbi was too small a fish? Maybe punishing Sokolich would make for a better example of Port Authority Wildstein’s new power and authority? Maybe Port Authority Wildstein didn’t believe anyone would ride to Ft Lee’s rescue? Maybe Port Authority Wildstein was just plain nutz?
Is there evidence that Christie hires people, as his senior staff, willing and capable of pulling this shit, bullying people in his name and laughing about it? And that he has to have it shoved in his face before he’ll do anything in response? Would you agree to that much, at least?
Da fuq?
An attempt to suggest Wildstein wasn’t one of Christie’s guys?
Band name?
Of course, there is evidence that Kelly was involved with the Great Lane Reassignment. And there is evidence that Christie fired her. Christie also withdrew support for Bill Stepien when it became known Stepien had “displayed a callous attitude” about the people caught in the traffic jam (or maybe it was a comment he made about the incompetent Sokolich?).
When Christie became aware (or had it shoved in his face, as you prefer) of “his peoples” involvement, he dealt with it. That’s not proof of Christie targeting Sokolich for not supporting him.
Did you miss this?
from nj.com
Italicizing evidence and credible would be more effective and accurate than scare quoting.
Please cite that scenario is “the most often cited”
There is evidence they joked about the Rabbi traffic jam after the Time For Some Traffic Problems In Fort Lee email.
That wasn’t what I was commenting on. I thought I made that clear when I quoted what I was responding to, but just in case you missed it the first time here’s what you said:
You’re comparing it to your local government and what would be the appropriate channels. You certainly seemed surprised that Mayor Sokolich involved the governor’s office in what you feel was a dispute between Sokolich and the the Port Authority. And I agree it wouldn’t make sense for most mayors, including mine, to call the governor about a traffic jam. But the GWB isn’t a normal situation. Given the volume of traffic it sees it’s not even remotely surprising that Sokolich wanted Governor Christie’s support for anything involving the bridge or the Port Authority.
If you want me to say that it’s possible for Christie to be cleared by any or all of the ongoing investigations, sure, it’s possible. The people he surrounds himself with and appointed to high level positions may have lied to and manipulated him. Personally, Christie seems too intelligent and too egotistical for that, but maybe he isn’t. Rick Perry as a figurehead governor, yes, but not Christie. Still if that’s the case then Christie seems to be such a terrible judge of character that it borders on gross incompetence. But completely 100% innocent.
I believe there has been more than enough Misinformation, Subterfuge, Nonsense, Bullshit, Confusion, as well as misdirection, mistakes, unsubstantiated rumors associated with this incident. I thought it would be helpful to new participants, or confused old participants, to identify Wildstein as a Port Authority employee.