Did I get ripped off by the plumber?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I know, popular topic these days, right?

So we finally take all the stuff out of the master half bath that’s been in there since we had to panic-shove all our worldly goods out of half of the house to get the floors redone in February, and oh shit the floor is wet. A little crawling around and it seemed that the water was coming from the base of the toilet, so I assumed it was the seal, a job I’ve done before but not eight months pregnant. (My husband has many sterling qualities but confidence in household repairs is not one of them, so it’s either me or we hire somebody.)

Well, I had a plumber I trusted, but it’s a long story and I really feel I need a new plumber. So I went to Angie’s List and called somebody with an huge number of reviews, which ought to be a good indication, right? So the guy comes out and I was wrong, I felt all around for water coming out and didn’t find any but evidently it was actually coming from the bolt on the tank or something (again, it’s a little harder for me to crawl around on the floor these days). So that’s good news when it comes to floor damage, which I was worried about because we didn’t know how long it had been a problem.

So the plumber, who I felt pretty good about upon meeting, tells me I can either rebuild the guts of the toilet (another job I could normally do myself but not so much now) for $225 or I could get a new one, which he estimated at around $500. Now, usually by the time I have somebody come to look at stuff I already know what replacement cost would be and what the problem might be and everything, and I don’t know why I didn’t do that this time. It’s so unlike me that I really have to blame it on pregnancy brain. And looking back, wow, $500 to replace a toilet seems WAY high, doesn’t it? (My mom thought I got completely taken for a ride.) I mean, don’t those cost like $150-$200 unless you get the kind that blows gentle sea breezes at your business? Plus installation, of course, but?

So of course I went with the rebuild. And I’m happy with the job he did - toilet works, doesn’t leak, he cleaned up after himself very nicely. Actually left the bathroom cleaner than it was when he got there. Job was done quickly, I feel like he explained the problem and the options well, didn’t actually assume I was going to have him fix it once he diagnosed it, etc.

But did I get ripped off? I paid $225 exactly - I had a coupon for the service call, which would have been $49. (Did I pay, oh, about $50 more for the repair to make up for the coupon?) I’d chalk it up to “don’t pay for things while pregnant!” experience and not worry about it too much except that we’re considering having our next project be adding a shower stall to that bathroom, so if I liked this plumber I was going to use him for that. I asked him for a ballpark on what it would cost to do that (it would involve a new sink, the shower, fixtures and all, and moving the connections) and he said probably around $4500. Is THAT a fair price? I don’t mind paying a bit more to hire somebody dependable who stands behind his work, etc., but I don’t want to be ripped off either.

(Oh, for comparisons and all, this is in Columbia, SC.)

2

Sounds about right to me. I paid $275 to a plumber a few months ago just to snake some drain lines. He was in and out in about an hour and even gave me a lifetime guarantee on his work.

IMHO, getting ripped off would have meant the plumber did a half ass job or did nothing at all. I think you are suffering from a case of sticker shock with a side of buyer’s remorse. The plumber did what you paid him to do and he did it very well. Someone doesn’t get good reviews on Angie’s List by ripping people off.

3

If it was just the $225, I don’t really have a context for that. But the quoted price for replacement, that seems in retrospect really high.

4

This site (when supplied with a SC zip code) estimated the cost of a toilet installation (“calculated from average material costs, unit labor producitivity rates and national average hourly labor wages”) at $326. That includes about $200 for a new toilet, about $100 for labor, and about $25 for miscellaneous costs. But this site says that a new toilet would cost anywhere from $200-$400 with labor costing anywhere from $125-$250 more.

Based on that it would sound like $500 for the installation of a new toilet is at the mid-to-upper end of normal.

5

$500 sounds a tad high, but if the plumber saw any indication that he would have to do even minor floor repairs or change the drain fitting I could see him bidding high. Also if he was not an independent plumber he probably had little choice in establishing the price.

6

I’m a contractor, and the way the op titled and framed the question is frustrating, and a little discouraging.

Plumber came in, fixed the problem, cleaned up well, and charged you a price you agreed upon. You seem ok with it, and it doesn’t seem like any scam in any way, shape, or form.

When you talk about paying too much, it’s for things you chose not to do, or may do in the future. That’s kinda crazy. You can’t get ripped off if you haven’t paid anything.

If you are curious about going rates, or pricing options, ask the questions, but don’t add emotionally charged words implying scam for no reason.

For example, if I needed a new tv, walked into best buy to look at options, I could get a tv for probably $200 to $10,000. Just because they offer a $10,000 tv, doesn’t mean they’re ripping anyone off. If I started a thread saying"Did Best Buy rip me off by having a $10,000 tv for sale in their store?" You’d think I was crazy. Yet it’s perfectly ok to say that about plumbers, or contractors.

The plumber charges what it takes to keep him in business, and earn a living. You pay what you think is fair, or you find another one, or you do it yourself.

If you are curious about the price quoted off the cuff for future work, I would recommend getting a couple written bids. Just make sure it’s for the exact same work and fixtures.

7

to do that work it seems a fair price.

the replacement cost might have included a top of the line fixture. it is always good to give the maximum cost in an estimate upfront so that you know what you could be in for. if he had given an estimate that was ‘if everything go right and a low cost fixture is selected’ then pulls out the old fixture finds the floor rotten (and needs to be replaced) and you have selected the ‘high pressure low noise heated seat’ fixture then you are upset because it’s a higher cost and you don’t have a toilet.

8

Most contractors that stay in business have a minimum fee, usually between 2 and four hours equivalent. A plumber doing a renovation might only charge one hundred for a toilet install, it is just one of many tasks they are there for. Small jobs are just that much more time inefficient and you need to compensate for that.

9

fisha, I certainly see your point, but one reason I made the decision to have him go ahead with the job as he did it was that his price for replacement was what it was and I trusted him to be giving me a fair price there. I might have made a different decision otherwise. So if he gave me a price that was really too high for a midrange toilet replacement, therefore steering me towards doing the work he did (which, again, I was happy with although I don’t know if I paid more than the market value on it) then that affects my decision on whether to use him again. He said replacement would start at 500, and Lowe’s seems to sell most of its toilets for under or around $200. I understand that some of those are probably toilets I don’t want, and would expect him to explain that to me if we had gone with replacement. I also understand that installation of anything in an old house can come with complications. But $300 installation seems kind of steep, which is why I’m asking people’s opinions here.

(His last name was the same as the company, so if it wasn’t just him I assume it’s a family business.)

The thing is, I have to decide if I want to keep this guy as My Plumber or not. It’s easy to say that a fair price is whatever price you agree on, but when it’s a Sunday afternoon and something evil is coming up through the drains, frankly you’re not in a position to determine that with a clear head and the guy you’ve got is there right now. You need somebody you can trust. So I need to know, is that this guy?

10

Replacing a toilet is “easy” in a sense that you don’t need to be a plumber to do it. But it does go faster and easier and surely ends up better if you are a plumber and have done it a million times.

And it’s more than just “unplug the old one and plug in the new one” (which you know, since you’ve done a wax ring before). There’s a lot of niggling little pieces to the whole process. Not to mention that the toilet is heavy, awkward and very breakable. And there’s an extra layer of annoyance when you have to do it alone. And a bathroom is a small and annoying place to work.

Replacing a toilet might be a very cheap thing to do, labor-wise, if the toilet were to go in an open area on the lawn next to your driveway. But, once you add in stairs and hallways and a little bathroom and having to do the reverse with the other toilet, the labor starts to add up.

11

What more do you want? Not being snarky, honest question.

Good reviews, kept appointment, gave you options, fixed problem, cleaned up after himself, kept to original price.

In the land of plumbers, that’s pretty darn good.

It seems like he charged you going rate, perhaps middle/middle high.

Even if he overcharged (which is debatable) you want to keep guys like this in business. You’re rewarding good business practices, as opposed to giving money to the bottom feeders.

I go to different meetings with different contractors from all over the US. One of our common frustrations is homeowner expectations. We have to be clean cut, well spoken, masters of our trade, answer phones or emails 24/7, always be on time, get complicated jobs done yesterday, never make a mess, deal with crazy homeowners and/spouses tactfully and cheerfully, make sure we are code, tax, OSHA, employee law, contract law, and license compliant. And…we’re supposed to do it for cheap.

12

Well, not “cheap”, but “reasonable”, yes. “Cheap” would be if he were charging below market rate. I don’t expect that. And I think it’s a perfectly rational question to ask about somebody who did work for you - did he charge you more than most, or not, and why? Like I said, I have no problems paying more for quality parts, or a better job that lasts longer, or a local company that stands behind its work. In fact, I just replaced a dishwasher (seriously, this baby is bad luck) and paid a good $50 extra to get it from a local company instead of a big box store because I felt the service and reputation was worth it.

BTW, their contracted plumber charged me $150 to install the dishwasher, which seems like a comparable yet slightly less PITA job than installing a toilet. Of course, that’s the price they negotiate with their installers, and they’ve got a steady business arrangement, etc. Whole other ball game.

13

does the plumber have a butt crack that you can live with?

14

I would have suggested buying the toilet and a new wax ring yourself. Have the OP’s husband unpack it and have it ready to install. Then Call plumber. That way you’re only paying for his time to actually instal it.

My plumber charges $75 an hour. I would expect the installation (including removing the old one) to be about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. $150 plus any parts I didn’t have. $200 at the most

I hate plumbing work. Tight areas, down on my knees, nasty and smelly. I rather call the plumber for those jobs.

15

Actually, he wasn’t too hard on the eyes. A far sight better than my old plumber, who looked like something that your motor might get caught up on in the swamp.

16

Oh, yeah, they gotta be hot, too.* You expect way too much out of your average plumber. Maybe you could’ve tipped him? Heh.

As an aside, I’m not even sure why I’m defending plumbers, out of all the trades I deal with on a day to day basis, they are the bane of my existence.

*As a woman in the business, I truly appreciate hot guys. Hell, I’m even married to one.

17

Depends on the toilet, of course. A Kohler Comfort Height runs about $350 just for the porcelain. Without knowing what make/model the guy was estimating for, it’s impossible to tell if he was gouging.

18

Did you tell him that if you replaced the toilet, you wanted one just like the existing one (as long as it meets code)? Also, keep in mind that you’re paying him to go out and buy a toilet for you, too. Expect him to mark up the price he has to pay for the toilet-- that’s how people actually make money in their business.

$500 for a plumber to come and take out the old toilet and replace it with a new one seems reasonable to me. As noted, you could have probably save money by purchasing and delivering the toilet to the job site yourself.

19

It may be that he was not planning to use a $150 Home Depot/Lowe’s specially discounted toilet, but one that he’s familiar with and knows will give reliable service over time. Because he knows that if there are any problems with it over the next year or so, you’re going to call him and expect him to deal with it at his expense.

And if you weren’t comfortable with the $500 estimate, why didn’t you say, “Gee, that seems like a lot, given that I can buy one from Lowe’s for $150. Can you tell me why it’s that much?”

I know, for example, that I can get a new kitchen faucet for $100 at Home Depot, or a similar-looking but higher quality one from the local plumbing supply house for $500-800.

20

Because while normally I’d have been familiar with the price of a replacement, this time for some reason I didn’t do my research.