I thought they were supposed to be Hungarian nobility. I think one of her ancestresses was the King of Hungary’s mistress, or so she claimed.
Academic library work is a lot more than just working the reference desk (that’s usually the easiest part of the job). Ideally students should be able to find all or most of the resources for their classes in the library. There is (okay, should be) coordination with the faculty to keep the collection in the best possible condition for both teaching and research. We want to know what the faculty want in the library for their students to find and want them to send their students to us looking for help. Librarians are also almost universally information junkies. We want to use this mania to further academic research, anyones’ research. This breaks down fast when Dr. Midwest who can’t relate to anyone that isn’t white, Protestant or Dr. X from Two Decades’ Ago Communist Hellhole doesn’t won’t work with the “conniving Tzigane who is probably an embezzler.”
The closest thing to a Gypsy I’ve seen in this country plays a mean guitar.
I wonder if this is pretty localized? I grew up on the West Coast. I had of course heard of Gypsies, but never seen an actual Roma/Gypsy until I went to Budapest. And in Budapest they clearly stood out. Or at least a sub segment clearly stood out. It’s been 15 years but they were somewhat stereotypical of descriptions I had read about (smaller and looked like victims of generations of malnourishment, grubby) and made me want to watch out for my wallet. I remember it in a very odd way - check out that dodgy looking group, hmmm, wonder if those are gypsies, and colleagues confirmed they were. I hope this doesn’t come across as racist, but it was striking how sterotypes from literature were right there…
Irish Traveler was a term I learned on the Dope.
When I was a kid in the Boy Scouts on the east coast, we ended up near a group of Gypsies on one of or camping trips. We, as kids, were fascinated and wanted to interact as much as we could, but the adults would have nothing of that, and made sure we stayed clear of them for the entire weekend.
Southern Ontario here. I’m another one chiming here to say that I had no idea “gypsies” were real… I thought they were just fairytale creatures in Disney movies and stories by the Brothers Grimm, like elves and dwarves and mermaids.
It wasn’t until at least university that I started reading about the Roma. In high school I read a lot of Stanislaw Lem, and in a minor episode in one of his stories, he has the protagonist being ripped of by some ‘space gypsies’. This threw me for a loop, because why did he suddenly out of nowhere add an awkward and unfunny fairytale episode to what was otherwise a pretty good space parody?
It is. There is a concentration of them in the Carolina’s and a smaller one in Seacoast New Hampshire/Northern MA. If you didn’t live right next to them I can see not having heard of them.
The only thing close to that in Minnesota was the word “gyp”. As in “he said he was going to pay me $10 but only gave me $5. He gypped me off”. Merriam-Webster says the etymology is probably short for gypsy and based on the spelling, that would make sense.
ZPG Zealot says: “Have you ever been on a university campus? Ethnic diversity is something most institutions of higher learning take pride in.”
This is responsive in what way to my questions of whether anyone knows the ethnicity of thier local librarian or believes that university reference librarians are hired without qualifications?
i note you later say “The typical American white males usually perceives that I am different and wants (if not demands) to know why”
Different from what? From the person standing next to you? Different from other women? I dare say that all will acknowledge that, but won’t need to ask or demand why. or do you mean you as a woman are different from the white males?
Well, that answers my question about whether FrankJBN has ever been to university campus (unless he’s posting from somewhere outside the U.S.). Most instituations of higher learning will make it known they have faculty and staff composed of various minority groups. This is a selling point for some potential students. Also, I spearhead campaigns to recruit more Roma as students at our campus and have spoken on the subject for a number of discussion panels, campus activities, etc. As to the more obvious visual differences. My hair is always covered. In the winter this makes me look Muslim until people notice the cross I might be wearing. In warmer weather my hair is still covered, but my arms and much of the upper body may not be, so I don’t get the Muslim questions, but the curiousity is still the same. Either way it’s obvious I am not the typical, middle class, white American woman.
The only times I’ve ever heard someone actually express distate for “Gypsies” (in the negative, it’s never Roma, always Gypsies) were people who weren’t born in Canada but who brought the prejudice with them from Europe.
For most people born and raised here, the very existence of Roma as a distinct ethnic group is something they’re barely aware of, or not aware of at all. Some people might have read up on it, but for most Canadians, a “Gypsy” is a moth or a sort of semi-mythical character in a book or movie.
A similar group are the Irish Travellers. A few years back you may recall a woman was caught in the USA on a mall security tape beating the living shit out of her kid. When the cops caught her she claimed she was being discriminated against because she was an Irish Traveller. The reaction of the cops, as well as most people, was “what the hell is an Irish Traveller?” Roma aren’t far from that around here; it’d be like asking people how they felt about Tuaregs or the North Sentinelese. You can’t hold a prejudice against a group you do not know exists.
However, as I mentioned, I’ve met a few Europeans whose racism agaisnt Roma is amazingly strong. To them, all thefts are blamed on “Gypsies” - and they’re dea serious about it - despite the fact that in Toronto it’s rather extremely unlikely any given theft is committed by a “Gypsy.”
I was going to bring up this word. I was astonished when Carol Higgins Clark put out a book with the title “Gypped.” And Oprah once used the word, got a slew of letters about it, and apologized on air, saying she wasn’t aware of the origin of the word and would no longer use it.
I only became aware of the origin of the expression ten years ago. We used to use it all the time when I was growing up. I don’t think that there was a strong anti-gypsy sentiment when I was growing up since we weren’t aware of any.
I think if you are wearing a headscarf that looks Muslim - and a cross that looks Christian - it will create some curiosity. That would confuse most Americans - as much as would a young man wearing a yamaka with a cross.
If people assume you are Muslim - yes there is going to be some racism, but I would think little at the university level.
However, I don’t think the vast, vast, majority of Americans (including myself) can identify roma/gypsy in public. The only time I’ve heard the term used is either in the fantastical sense “we are going to sell you to the gypsies” or from someone born outside the US.
I don’t even think I knew they were an existent group of people until I was at least a teenager. I thought it was something in fairy tales and the like.
I grew up in the Eastern US and Gypsy always meant those people in old movies who rode around in brightly painted wagons. I wouldn’t have known if a real life person was a Gypsy or not. Maybe we are more aware these days of smaller racial groups than we were in the pre-internet days. That might lead to more acceptance or maybe more racism, depending on the person.
When I visited Spain in the 80’s I was warned by a local not to visit some some ruins because “Gypsies live there and they will rob you.” I thought he was joking and I didn’t get the joke because I could only picture happy, singing Gypsies from the movies.
The only dislike of Gypsies I’ve ever heard in real life was related to a dislike of fortune tellers who are always portrayed with the same stereotypes.
My late husband rented one of our houses to Romani. I cannot stand them. The stole, rippes us off, and sublet to strangers, who we threw out at midnight one nite. They never called the cops. But the cops sure called us, repeatedly, looking for them.
There seems to be quite a bit of conflation of Travelers with Gypsies (Roma) in this thread. They’re entirely different ethnic groups, and probably have absolutely nothing to do with each other in the wild, so to speak.
Travelers are of Irish descent, as far as I know, and the word “Traveler” really seems to denote a lifestyle rather than an ethnicity. I do remember my mother occasionally describing her badly-behaved children as “Tinkers,” which is probably a word she picked up from her Irish immigrant mother, and which I think is used of the same kind of itinerant people in Ireland.
“Gypsy” is a somewhat derogatory term for a particular ethnic group that has a reputation (whether deserved or not) for scamming and stealing in Europe. Roma are mostly likely completely unknown to most Americans, who use the word “gypsy” more or less interchangeably with “Traveler,” to describe a nomadic lifestyle supported by scams. Actually, I don’t think most Americans are aware of the group(s) of people known as Travelers, either. They just use the word “gypsy” to describe people they think of as drifters and lowlife. But they wouldn’t know a real Roma if he or she bit them in the ass.
I know when I was little I didn’t think Gypsies were fictional. Esmerelda in The Hunchback of Notre Dame was mentioned as a Gypsy several times. Which isn’t to say I believe talking in talking gargoyles and that hunchbacks live in French churches, but the existence of an ethnic group feared as witches and thieves seemed legit enough to me at that age.
However, while I accepted them as real, I did have a notion that they either didn’t exist anymore, or were rare and lived in some vague “somewhere else” (probably in Europe). Which, honestly, isn’t too far off.
By the end of middle school I was pretty sure they existed just by the fact that when we had lessons on World War II we learned about all the groups Hitler tried to purge, which included Roma/Gypsies. I wonder how many Americans remember that, because while it wasn’t focused on, it was definitely mentioned more than once.
That said, I probably never would have recognized a Roma person unless they were in head scarves travelling between festivals in wagons, while dancing around campfires and telling fortunes.
ETA: Though I was rather stymied when I learned the innocent word that was clearly spelled “jipped” was actually a somewhat offensive word spelled “gypped”.
Our area seems to have a problem with both Roma gypsies and the Travellers, because there are frequent mentions of both in the Police Beats section of the local paper. And my whole life it has been common knowledge that anyone who shows up offering to blacktop your driveway for cheap because they “just finished a job a few blocks away and need to get rid of the leftover asphalt before it goes bad” is probably one of the two groups. (In fact, in the latest episode of Gypsy Sisters they mentioned that their clan are blacktoppers who travel a circuit throughout the US). There are frequently warnings in the paper to be aware of this or that scam being perpetrated around the county by Gypsies or Travellers.
And when I lived on Ft. Benning in Georgia (back when Army posts were open to all) we heard that groups of Gypsy women were making the rounds at garage sales, and lo and behold, the one time I hold a sucessful garage sale (getting rid of tons of baby gear) they showed up at mine and tried some fast talking. My neighbor who was helping me and I thought we were on our toes to the chance of being ripped off, but it wasn’t until they were well away that I realized keeping the money in my pocket instead of the money box wasn’t as smart as I thought, as they had picked my pocket. So, yeah…I’m a little wary around people I think may be Gypsies, and if they come into my store, I call for a security walk-through (without confrontation) option, just like I’d do anytime I have a group of people come in and scatter to different corners and then try to keep my attention confined to one small area with silly questions. They are just one of many suspicious groups on our watch out for list.
I always thought the word Gypsy equated to a nomadic or traveling group of peopel and the Roma is actually refering to their Romanian roots. Whats being aired on tv is tacky at best and puts them in a horrible light and only perpetuates any stereo type that may come of it. They dress like ho’s but are supposed to be virtuous? They dance like strippers drink like sailors and act like they have had no upbringing. From what I’ve seen the men work, play and do as they please while the women keep house and raise the kids. And from what I’m told by a gypsy friend is that the men beat the women whenever they want to for whatever they want to. They are not educated at all they are kept away from non gypsys so as to not expose the females to those values. Girls are raised to clean period and as soon as they are old enough they start teaching them to clean. The men are raised to work and provide what they want to to their framilies women are expected to be preened and clothed according to their husbands wishes. Sounds like its a society of 15th century ideals.