What's up with "gypsy" scam artists

The BBQ Pit
1

“Gypsies” for lack of a better description at the risk of be labeled bigoted. I just saw a segment on ‘Dateline’ on gypsy thieves. It was about bands that go into businesses and completely distract the clerks in order to gain access to the cash registers and safes. It brought back old resentments.

I never had to deal with outright theft but I used to work at a restaurant that had a family (~10-12 people) of “gypsies” come in every few months. They had a palm reading/curse removing/fortune telling business down the road. They were any server’s nightmare. “I want margarine…I asked for butter; my beer glass isn’t cold enough; I didn’t order this; we need 5 more baskets of the free dinner rolls; there’s a fly in my soup…”

What is up with people like this? They would eat all but a dozen tails or so of 5lbs. of streamed shrimp and then want a replacement for the whole order because ‘a fly had landed on it’. Eat 4.75 lbs. of shrimp and then ask for 5 more lbs. for free. Bitch about being charged for cheeseburgers they had eaten because it had the wrong type of cheese on it-saying this isn’t what I ordered and I shouldn’t have to pay for it AFTER it was eaten. Ordering beer and giving the beer to the underage members of the party. One of the teenage sons sat at the bar and wanted a Long Island Ice-tea. When I laughed and asked for ID, he told me it was OK-his mom said it was all right. I could just picture the liquor board inspector’s face; well, if his mom said it was OK. Claim that they hadn’t gotten their 10 pounds of crab legs even after I had seen it weighed out on a scale. They would just dump all the napkins, shrimp peels, and crab shells on the floor. The infants’ diapers were changed on any available table in full view of the whole place. And, even the little 5-6 yrs olds would try to work the staff for quarters that they claimed to have lost in the video game machines. Oh, yeah, they usually came in after 11:00 PM, when you would think kids this age would be in bed.

Best yet was the fact that they didn’t tip, even though tips were added in automatically to the bill with tables larger than 5 people. Their average bill was about $200, a nice size tip (for the place) to the server that would have to deal with them, but not even that.

Talk about wanting to buy into stereotypes (since these are the only "gypsies that I’ve ever had to deal with; I’m not into being rooked to have my palm read). Anybody have some thoughts about or experiences with “gypsies” or other scammers, or, just tables from hell.

2

Dammit, your post got that horrible Cher song stuck in my head…
Gyyyypsies, tramps and thieves

3

I think that you’re referring to the Travellers, not necessarily Gypsies.

Next time you’re frustrated with a business establishment’s policy, remember these people. It’s people who abuse the system who make it necessary for you to have your receipt and birth certificate before you can be issued a refund. Anyone who works with the public for any length of time has horror stories about certain customers.

Lynn the Packrat

4

Like most racists he has it all wrong…
(What? aren’t gooks and chinks the same??)

He is referring to “WHITE TRASH”, not gypsies.

Gypsies live in Europe, India and Asia, play the violin and are nomadic.

They might carry off your daughter tho…

5

Nah, he’s not referring to any specific ethnic group I don’t think it’s limited to one. It’s more a “state-of-mind” sorta thing and I’m sure the ethnicity varies depending on region. At the theater I worked at we called them gypsies too. First they’d show up with a dozen or so kids and try to get you to let one in to use the bathroom. If you did they’d pull the old exit door scam. If they actually bought a ticket, they’d give you a ten and pull the old “hey, I gave you a 20 (50, 100)!” Sometimes they’d show up out of the blue and claim “I was in last night and my kid choked on a hotdog/slipped in the restroom/got hives and was throwing up from your popcorn and we couldn’t find a manager to get passes so we left and went to the hospital, can we come back in and see the rest of the movie?” They always came up with something dramatic and litigation worthy so you’d think “Oh goodness, me! Thank heavens they only want to see the movie and not sue us!” Gimme a break! I told one guy flat out “Last night was a Saturday, and at one point there were FIVE managers working. I find it hard to believe you couldn’t find one of us.” He got belligerent and started yelling about how it wasn’t the money, it was the principle of the thing, waving a wad of bills around. “I GOT money! It’s not ABOUT money!!!” You’d ask to see ticket stubs and they’d (of course!) have thrown them away, or our “bad ticket person” hadn’t given them any. (RIGHT!) Then when you asked them what movie it actually was, they’d look around wildly until they saw something listing what we were playing and blurt the first thing they saw. (They wouldn’t even know what was playing, they only wanted something for nothing and didn’t care if it was a movie or passes or free food, etc.) Arrgh!

When the company started issuing free refills on the large popcorn they had to put a disclaimer on the sign saying “same visit only.” People would always laugh when they saw it but then admitted that if we didn’t say it some scammer would keep bringing back the same greasy, beat up container and get mad because you wouldn’t let it near the popcorn bin.

Marge: “You know, Homer, it’s very easy to criticize.”
Homer: “Fun, too!”

6

I haven’t ever seen any gypsies in the U.S., but I had my pocket picked TWICE in Italy (in two days), and at least once, it was done by gypsies. (I got it back. Second time, I didn’t, so I have no idea who did it.)

Of course, it’s important to note that gypsies are discriminated upon all over Europe - being a Romany has got to be pretty difficult, and I was an easy and obvious target (“She’s got a big backpack and is speaking English! Must be a rich American.”)

~Kyla

“Anger is what makes America great.”

7

If these were gypsies, they would be south Asian in appearence, and I do not think too many gyspies live in the US. Either these were Irish-origin travellors, or just groups of white trash.

Anyway, I’m laughing my ASS off at these stories- I used to work retail so I’ve seen all the scams.
“The other salesman told me I could get this on sale today!” “Oh yeah? Whats his name?”“I dont know- the younger guy with the glasses.”
“This power tool doesnt work. I want my money back.” “Well sir. It looks a BIT used.
Do you have your receipt?”“No I dont. Look if you wnot take it back I want the manager!”

8

No, these are gypsies. They do not look Asian, and they certainly are not white trash or Irish. I used to work in the hotel industry, and I am very familar with these people. They are distinctly ethnic. They seem to be European, travel in a large family group, and steal whatever they can. I have seen children in these groups who are 4 or 5 years old, already practicing the “family business”. I was always under the impression that these people are genuine gypsies, not just a bunch of thieves traveling together.

We had a network in our town to warn other businesses if gypsies came around. The cops knew about them, and so did all of the restaraunts and hotel/motels. And they are distint enough in their manners and looks that you can basicly tell gypsies on sight.

Believe me, these people may not travel in horse-drawn caravans anymore, but they do exist. And there is nothing romantic about them.

Dizzy

You people have been holding me back long enough! I’m going to clown college!

9

Uglytruth said:

What?! Actually, after Gypsies commit crimes, they are most often described as “Hispanic” by their victims, who don’t know better. They certainly are not “south Asian in appearance.”

Actually, a fair number of Gyspies live in the US, although they tend to stick together in specific locations. In other words, there are many at all in some parts of the US, and quite a lot in others. Yes, another group that is similar in terms of perpetration of certain types of crimes are Travellers, but that doesn’t exclude one or the other.

10

The group shown on the Dateline segment was said to be from Eastern Europe. Until the leaders of the group fled the US, they operated out of Skokie, Illinois.

The footage shown, from store surveillance cams, was pretty amazing. These people were well organized and quick. Most of the participants were women, wearing long, full skirts. One robbery involved two women raising and waving their skirts to distract a store employee. Pretty weird.

11

The Romany (or Romani, or Roma, or Gypsies) are members of a distinct ethnic group who have been reviled and vilified for ages. Over a million were killed in Hitler’s pogroms (thought it was all Jews, huh?), though he was hardly the first to want the Gypsies dead. They are originally of Eastern European origin, although they have spread across the world. There are quite a number in the States and Canada.

As Jews have gotten a reputation for being misers and bankers, so have the Romany gotten a reputation for theft and graft (and stealing babies, yadda yadda). One of the main differences between the two groups, however, is the Romany nomadic tradition. For the Romany, family is of the utmost importance, and ownership of property is an illusion.

Instead of staying in one place to eventually become accepted (as did many Jews in medieval Europe), the Roma have always travelled in their companies (kumpania), and as such never had a chance to become accepted in any communities. Survival became a watchword–when all are against you, you do whatever is necessary to survive. That includes larceny, deceit, and con. At the same time, they are by and large a very spiritual and religious people, often adopting the dominiant religion of their adopted countries, especially Chistianity and Islam, while maintianing many traditional animistic and “pagan” elements (which also have never endeared them to the mainstream).

I could yap for ages, but I’ll provide links instead:

A page with a great deal of info on Romany culture and personal anecdote: www.geocities.com/~patrin/patrin.htm
An essay by the Czech Helsinki Committee on the disposition and situation of Romany in the Czech Republic: www.helcom.cz/en/zprava98/3_1.htm
A brief essay on Romany language from Radio Prague: www.radio.cz/romove/lang.html
A description of the Romany population of Finland (from the state-written Finnish information site): www.finland.fi/finfo/english/minorit4.html
A decent examination of Romany religious beliefs from ReligiousTolerance.org: http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm

For the sci-fi inclined, I’d highly recommend Bob Silverberg’s Star of Gypsies, an extremely well-researched and very enjoyable novel.

-andros-

12

Sorry, I haven’t got back to this sooner after the OP.

RobRoy-“like most racists blah blah blah…”

Thanks, I knew somebody was going to post this. Sounds like a blanket statement similar to the one that you feel I made. Not that I want to defend racists or want to sound like one. FWIW, to me, “gypsies” connotes these scam artists, not some particular ethic group. As Lynn mentioned, maybe “Travelers” would have been a better term to use.

Hmm… WHITE TRASH, yep, you’re right, these are the people that pulled this shit. I guess the fact that they looked “ethnic”, threw me. Believe me, we had plenty of “whitetrash” at this place

I’m going to watch “Pinochio” now to redeem myself.

13

I think in this instance we’re (the OP and myself) talking about groups of family scam artists genericly known as “gypsies” although they are of no particular ethnic descent – Much in the way that all adhesive bandages are collectively known as “Band-Aids.” I have a caucasian friend who has dodgey relatives whom she refers to as “gypsies” because they’re always trying to scam people by adding zeros to checks or pulling the con where they claim to re-tar a driveway but really just paint it black, etc.

Marge: “You know, Homer, it’s very easy to criticize.”
Homer: “Fun, too!”

14

Ah, I see. Well, since this is the Pit, Voguevixen, please don’t take too much offense when I ask if your friend also refers to her lazy relatives as beaners or her stupid ones as niggers?

15

Hey, I could say that to me, “647” connotes “rude fucker,” but that wouldn’t make it true, now would it?

16

Andros – flaming aside, yer first post is right on the money but fer one detail – the Gypsies are generally thought to have migrated originally from India to Eastern Europe, among other places. Also, "Romany’ is a language. ‘Romanian’ (or ‘Romani’) is a nationality.

Anyway, the picking of nits aside – solid post sir.
Dr. Watson
“Money needs no translation.”

17

Andros-maybe, it depends on what you sister sez. Sorry, I never called her afterwards, or was it your mom? I wasn’t sure whether my OP was Pit material, but I thought I’d get the racist response.
Sounds like you’re a Romany defender, not there’s something wrong with that. And maybe it’s justified (your definition of “gypsy” is obviously different from mine). I admit I haven’t checked your links. Tell us what’s the difference. I though it was obvious (even from my OP) that what others and I were referring to weren’t necessarily Romany “gypsies”. So what do you call these scam-artists in America; or, do they even exist? How would you define the people that have been described, since they’re not “gypsies”?

“American travelers”? Who are they and where do they come from?

18

C&W: Thanks for your accolade, and for the India connection-correction. Although if we’re picking nits, my dictionary lists “gypsy” as the first definition of “romany.” Part of the problem with identifying an ethnic group as widespread as the gypsies is the divergence of language. I used Romany to make sure my usage wasn’t confused with Romanian citizens.

And speaking of dictionaries . . . 647, the first definition of “gypsy” reads: “a member of a wandering Caucasian people with dark skin and black hair.” The second definition refers to the language spoken by above. The third is “a person whose appearance or habits are like those of a gypsy.” (Webster’s New World Dictionary).

That’s my definition. The last one certainly lends a bit of leeway, but it does not say “one who acts like a stereotype of a gypsy.”

I don’t remember calling you a racist. I was only seeking to clarify terms. The people in your OP may very well have been gypsy.

Not really. You gave no indication one way or the other. Vogue did, so I figured she wasn’t talking about a particular ethnic group. But I sure couldn’t tell from your OP.

If you were, you’re making an reasonably undersandable generalization of an entire people If your only experience with hispanics is a guy pointing a gun at you, for example, you might well assume that all hispanics point guns at people. You’d be wrong, of course, but it’s at least understandable.

OTOH, if you aren’t referring to the Rom when you use the term “gypsy”, you’re using an ethnic descriptor as an epithet. (I used to know a waiter who described anyone who didn’t tip well as a “nigger,” based on her perceived idea that african-americans were poor tippers. Go fig.) And that’s all I wanted to point out. Once again, I really don’t think I called you a racist.

Some Rom do act the way you described, especially in the US. I remember an extended family in Utah who ran a huge hot electronics ring. But you asked why? For the “real” gypsies, centuries of persecution and a desperate desire to get as much as they can from a hostile world. That work?

I’m not saying it’s right, or justified.

“Assholes” comes to mind. So does “rude pieces of shit.” Regardless of their race, creed, color, or penis shape. If they’re Rom, I understand why they act that way. If they aren’t, I don’t. Either way they’re fucking losers who should be permanently banned from the store.
Oh, and my sister says “hi, Floppy.” Why’d she call you that?

-andros-

19

Obviously the problem of how to define these people and their language is not limited to common usage – the ‘Romany’ v. ‘Romani’ problem invades every source available, and probably stems from parallel pronunciation.

In purely linguistic terms, the ‘Romany’ language ended up being defined largely by default and out of frustration-- the ‘Romani’ have been a nomadic people throughout their history, and their language is a fascinating hybrid of influences that defies easy catagorization.

Pardon the pedantics, and please allow an old purist his sins . . .

But David B probably described the perception problem the best – the ‘Gypsies’, or ‘Romani’ if ye will, exist in substantial numbers in the U.S., and it is no more ‘racist’ to describe them in terms of their heritage than fer me to self-describe as a ‘Scotsman’ or for anyone to describe their neighbor as ‘African-American’. They are who they are.

To characterize them, as a people, in terms that limit yer perception of them to criminals and con-artists, on the other hand, is a problem. They’ve been nomads fer quite a few generations, after all, and might have a thing or two to say about yer own smug ideas about life . . .
Dr. Watson
"Don’t tell me death is easy when I’m dyin’ so slow . . . "

20

Hi, all! I feel as if I am walking into the proverbial “snake pit”, but I feel as if I have to say a few words here (virtually speaking, of course).

I am Rom (Gypsy). Are any of you? If you are, then you should have spoken up earlier. Among Roma today, there are medical doctors, university professors, scientists, lawyers, law enforcement officers, public officials (voted into office), and many other professions who “hide” their ethnicity in public in order to earn a livelihood, yet maintain “Romaniya” in private and are well respected members of the Roma (Gypsy) community. They are respectable, law-abiding members of the communities in which they live. Yes, Roma do live in houses, and not all travel in wagons or “caravans.” Of the worldwide population of Roma, it is estimated that 95 percent are sedentary.

Of course, there are others who choose to do wrong. But I ask, what ethnic group, Euro-American, African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American, etc., can claim that their ethnic group commits no crime, no acts of deceit, no infractions against the law? There is good and bad in every social group, every one of us. In America, if one is not Euro-American (“white” American) he or she is easily targeted or scrutinized to live up to the Euro-American’s expectations of how one should act or display themselves in public.

Someone earlier mentioned a “blanket.” Do not throw a blanket over all Roma (Gypsies). Remember the old adage (paraphrasing from memory), “Do not throw stones if you live in a glass house.”

I have received all sorts of verbal, physical, and “electronic” threats because of who I am, and what I am perceived to be. One must have a thick skin to survive, and my skin is thicker than others.

To you who have earlier chosen to “blanket” a minority from a few encounters you may have had, and do not call yourselves racists or bigots, I say that you are not honest with everyone else here, and particularly yourselves.

Roma are Gypsies, but not all “Gypsies” are Roma. This should be a good guideline to follow if you do consider yourselves, indeed, fair-minded.

If you would like to learn more about Roma (Gypsies), please visit http://www.patrin.com

Awaiting your flames with thick and blistering skin, Marko Courbet.

P.S. Thank you, andros, for your words of support (in an earlier post), but you have an uphill battle ahead of you!