I recently moved (same city…Los Angeles to Los Angeles, which is not regulated like inter-state moves are).
Anyway, we got several estimates, and no one would give us a flat rate for a local move, so it was an hourly rate. The move was picking up stuff at my tiny studio, then going to my girlfriend’s 2-bedroom townhouse, and moving everything to our new house.
This took 12 hours… while I had to work much of the day and was not able to supervise the move, the stuff I did witness made me feel like the guys were working their butts off, even though the initial estimate we got was for an 8 hr day.
However, the “packing materials” charge was almost as expensive as the move! They charged us $760 for packing materials, including bubble wrap, wardrobe boxes, furniture pads/blankets, etc. This brought was SHOULD have been an $800-$1000 move to just shy of $1,800.
By the way, we had the vast majority of our stuff pre-packed, though we needed a few extra boxes. The rest of the materials was to move furniture, TVs, etc…
I think we were scammed, but how can I be sure? I’m planning on following up via the local utilities commission and the Better Business Bureau, but I have no way of knowing if these charges are actually normal.
Well, you could call another moving company and have them come over and give you a quote for packing and moving your stuff. Make sure the quote is broken into components, and ask for details. This would give you an idea of whether the first group was in the ballpark, but it is a wee bit unethical to get a quote for a service you don’t actually expect to use.
I just moved house a few weeks ago. I moved the contents of a very overcrowded two bedroom townhouse (including garden furniture and garage contents) about 10kms. I pre-packed almost all items except furniture.
In total I paid a bit under $600 Australian (a bit over $300 US) for a six hour move. The removalist co. provided a six tonne truck and two men to do the move.
Apart from being a damn sight cheaper, my move was different from yours in three ways:
They did not charge me for packaging for any of the larger furniture items, in fact none of the furniture was packed, it was all wrapped in heavy, thick felt blankets (in some cases in bubble wrap) and stacked appropriately in the truck so it couldn’t be damaged. They did not charge me for the felt blankets - that’s part of the service and they use them again anyway. Not a single item was broken or damaged in the move.
I oversaw the whole operation from start to finish. I did not drive the guys like slaves (I even bought them some lunch and let them stop for 1/2 hour (while I was still paying them) for lunch) but neither did I let them bludge.
To reduce the time and keep the cost down, I actually helped do a fair bit of the lifting and carrying.
To me it sounds like they gypped you on the packaging costs but it’s hard to tell if they gypped you on the time.
I’ve hired movers twice (the same company, different guys though), both for very short in town moves (like a couple miles each time). The first time was a flat fee, they just moved the big furniture items and pre-packed boxes. The second time was an hourly rate, and thy moved whatever I wanted.
The first move I thought went easily and I was happy with the work. I forget what I paid. The second I thought I got ripped on the time by about 1 hour, and they didn’t move some things I though they should have. I paid for no materials.
60 Minutes did a story on movers years ago. They cited the same deal you got, fee for the guys, unnamed materials fees that doubled the cost of the move. And they show you bill before unpacking your stuff. Sounds to me like you got ripped. Start the phone calling, and good luck.
And another site with useful information on how to file a complaint – http://www.moving.org/
That aside I was in the moving industry and know a little about it. I am not saying the moving company was not at fault in your case, the company I worked for was very reputable and when the charges where higher than expected it was due to the customer. I know nothing about what you did filmyak, so I will speak about my experience with other customers.
If the estimate was over the phone it is next to useless, many people underestimate the amount of stuff they have. Even when someone from the moving company looks at the house people tend to not show them everthing, for example a storage unit in the basement. People will say things like ‘there’s a couple things in the attic/storage area’ and when you actually get to the storage area it is jammed full. I don’t know why somebody would do this and if it is intentional or not but I have seen it happen many times.
It is also common for the customer to say ‘everything is packed’ and when the movers show up there is still tons of stuff that has to be packed. Sometimes thing are packed so poorly that they have to be repacked to move safely. Boxes are expensive and even more so when the moving company packs them, the cost will add up quickly. Wardrobe and picture boxes are particularly expensive and also seem to be the ones that are needed the most even when ‘everything’ :rolleyes: is packed. Even your mattress and boxspring can be slid into boxes for a cost of $20+ each if you are not there to tell them not to.
On the other hand as far as I know packing materiels are included in the price of the box, for example the price of a picture box should include the cost of the box itself, labor for packing it, and any packing materials used (like bubble wrap). Possibly the cost of packing was broken down separately into labor/materials but I have never seen it done this way.
I also never heard of a separate charge for furniture pads, perhaps billing practices are different in California but I would definatly look into the charges for the Pads and packing materials.
Having worked in the moving industry for about ten years and working my way up from mover to salesperson and happily back down to dispatcher, I feel obligated to defend the people who sweat for 12 hours while moving your stuff.
Of course I don’t know exactly what happened with your move but from experience I would blame the salesperson who “estimated” your local move (which always would be an hourly charge). If you witnessed a portion of 12 hours worth of hard labor then you saw the end result of a bad estimate.
As a former (honest yet unsuccessful) moving and storage salesperson, I had the unfortunate job of convincing people like you that the slimy bastard who “estimated” the move at a simple and easy 5 hours was full of excrement. However, most people want to save money and almost always choose the cheapest option while ignoring the fact that their local move is based on an hourly charge and regardless of the incredibly low estimate, the COD amount is determined by the number of hours worked.
Sure 20/20 (and other news programs) have slammed the industry and for good reason. I did witness many petty thefts and sloppy work while packing/moving but for the most part I had the pleasure of sweating with a crew of hard working, hard drinking, fearless guys. When I say “fearless” I must point out that carrying a baby-grand piano up a flight of stairs with switch-backs is a dangerous situation.
My advice to those who move:
Tip your movers before they begin working (if money is an issue, give coffee, pop, water, doughnuts, whatever), but promise another gratuity when the job is completed.
If you aren’t comfortable tipping, just be kind to the people who will “hold everything you own” and offer them the above non-monetary items… especially water. You’d be amazed how often I worked 12+ hours in someone’s house without a drink from anything but their garden hose.
As mentioned above, show the estimator everything and I mean everything you intend to ship. If the salesperson doesn’t seem to be interested in getting his/her fat ass off your couch to actually look in your closets, attic, garage, in every corner of your house, he/she is not gonna be able to give you an honest estimate. Charm will only provide you with a person who will be mysteriously absent on moving day. And as mentioned by Anachronism, if an estimator attempts to quote you over the phone, move on to another company, it can’t be done via phone. I remember a co-worker complaining about a notorious phone salesperson while we worked until 10PM on an easy local move… “tap your phone on the triple dresser and I will accurately estimate your move”.
Watch your movers. As mentioned above, some steal and cheat though usually not when the “shipper” is at home. No need to look over every shoulder, just be there when the work is being done.
Local moves = hourly, estimates are almost worthless as most movers will have the same hourly rate (ask to make sure). References will be your best resource if you are concerned about how efficient a moving company might be.
Interstate/Long distance moves = shipment weight * distance moved. Again, most movers will have similar tariffs which calculate the miles to be traveled and the weight of your shipment. Estimators will use a cube sheet which will allow them to calculate the weight of your shipment based on 7 lb. per cubic foot per household good item (i.e. a 3 cushion sofa = 50 cu. ft. don’t freak out, they know that a couch doesn’t weigh 350 lbs, it’s an average thing). Most household shipments weigh 7 lb. per cu. ft. but an estimator may decide to apply 5 or 6 lb. per cu. ft if you have a lot of light items. Alternately 8 or 9 lb. might be used if you own a lot of books or cement furniture :D. Once again, don’t trust an estimator who spends all his/her time sitting on your 50 cu. ft. couch, and I must state again, the phone estimate is ultra-super-mega crap. Trust the guy who looks everywhere in your house. Ask him questions about his/her estimate and show everything you intend to move.
Finally… stairs, long-carries (meaning a long distance from the truck to the front door), packing, and insurance are all extra costs. In the case of a local/hourly move stairs and long-carries only add to the overall man-hours and will not be extra charges per se, they will just increase the amount of time of backbreaking labor involved in moving you. Interstate shipments are different in that stairs/long-carries will be additional or accessorial charges.
Hi Opal.
Sheesh, I didn’t mean for this post to be so long. I just felt a need to help those people who need to hire movers. In case you are wondering, I left the moving and storage industry years ago, now I work coordinating freight shipments on our Nation’s railroads… don’t even get me started on that topic
If this didn’t make sense, any questions will be answered.
When my wife and I moved from our apartment, to our new house, we used a service similar to what Motog used. In that we basically packed everything ourselves, and they provided 2 guys and a truck. actually the name of the company. While it did take two trips to get everything, I didn’t have any major complaints. About the only thing I thought was that they could have packed the truck better, and have gotten everything in one trip. But it was worth it to me, not to be totally exhausted at the end of the day.
When my mother-in-law had her things moved from storage, it was a different matter. Guy came out, saw the whole storage area, saw the place that she was moving to, and knew everything about where things would be moving. And the time was half again as long as we were quoted. Instead of 6 hours, they tried to bill her for 10. I was ticked, and called the guy that had originally come out, and bitched. While I understood that an estimate was just that, an estimate, I didn’t think there was any excuse for them to be that far off when they had seen everything. We ended up splitting the difference.
I wish I had some words of advice to give you filmyak, but at this point, I’m not sure there is much you can do. Best of luck, and I hope you get some of your money back.
Yeah it’s been quite a while, but thanks for the view from the other side, IBBen.
But I still have one question: the packing materials. The movers who finished our job used SIGNIFICANTLY fewer packing materials for identical items than the first company did, and still got everything to our new home in great condition. And the 1st company’s packing materials charges were about the same as the price of the entire move!
This, to me, was the fishiest part of the entire process.
It’s been a while since I posted in these forums, I apologize as I didn’t realize that the Straight Dope put a time limit on the eradication of ignorance. My bad.
Yak, it’s my pleasure to try to defend the other side, movers get a bad rap and for the most part, it’s an incredibly stressful, honest industry filled with hardworking people.
As to your quote above, I only see reference to one move. When you say the “movers who finished your job” what do you mean?
As for the packing material, I’ll echo what Anachronism said (6 months ago), many shippers think that they have packed everything and when the movers show up, they can’t just throw the pictures, loose dishes in the dishwasher, priceless antique Greek statues, etc. into the truck. If there is nobody home to tell the crew to do otherwise, everything that needs to be packed to ensure safe transit will be packed.
What seems weird to me is that the additional packing charge ($800?) does seem excessive as on an hourly local move, the packing labor is all part of the hourly charge, the packing materials are indeed expensive but they shouldn’t have been that expensive.
Alternately, a long distance move will use a per box charge. Mirror, Mattress, and Dishpacks are quite spendy.
Dunno if I’m helping or making you even more confused. I just keep going back to your statement about how the crew “worked their butt’s off for 12 hours” and sympathize with them.
If you’d like, I’d be happy to look at the final charges and see if you’ve been ripped (if you still have 'em that is)
I challenge any of you to estimate all the contents (or cu. ft. to be shipped) simply by opening the sliding door of a storage unit and looking at a 10’ high wall of furniture and boxes. Tis impossible to know what lies at the back of the storage unit. Tis even more impossible to know exactly what needs to be packed (see my post above… mirrors, pictures, glassware, etc.)
