Did the officials determine the outcome of LSU/TN?

First, I understand the game can’t end on a defensive penalty, but…

Okay, clearly The Vols had 13 players on the field, but if you watch the replay, a LSU lineman (No. 55 perhaps?) throws his helmet to the ground (a pretty big offense, if I recall, a 15-yarder ‘personal foul’ type offense) and wasn’t flagged. I’m guessing that the stripes assumed the game was done (not having eyes in the back of thier heads and seeing the flag in the end zone)and didn’t bother tossing the hanky, but I think they shoud have, and the penalties would have…

offset? Put LSU ten yards from the goal? Help me out. What do you FoolBall heads think?

Yeah, I know plenty of calls go unmade, but this one kinda bugs me, cause it clearly changed the outcome of the game.

I’ll hazard a guess here, mainly because I’m interested in bumping this. I wasn’t able to see the game … I was at Iowa State’s pretty amazing win over Texas Tech (six touchdowns in the fourth quarter, gang).

My guess hearkens back to one of Alabama’s big wins last year where they blocked a field goal as time expired. One of the Alabama defenders ripped off his helmet in celebration — clearly against the rules, if the game was still going on. However, since time expired during the play, the game had officially finished. Therefore, no penalty.

I would guess that explanation holds here as well. LSU player rips off his helmet (in frustration this time) as time expires during the play. Game over, so no penalty, right? Ooops … game not over, defensive penalty, resulting in untimed down. Just a guess, but if time expired, and Alabama doesn’t get penalized, I guess LSU doesn’t get penalized either.

Now … I can see a codicil that would result in enforcement of such penalty (since the game was actually NOT over, and was extended by the untimed down). By definition, if the unsportsmanlike offense came after the play, it wouldn’t have offset the defensive penalty. It would have to be a dead-ball foul enforced after the penalty on Tennessee. So they would have been 15 yards back of where they actually snapped the untimed down.

I guess the officials can’t call a “retroactive” penalty … they saw the helmet come off, but knew the clock had run out and therefore, game over and no penalty. Once the substitution penalty was called, however, I suppose they weren’t able to “go back” and penalize the LSU player for an action that appeared legal (or at least non-penalizable) at the time.

Notice how much I use the word “guess” in this. Because while I know a little bit about rules and officiating, it’s just about enough to be dangerously wrong.

So it sounds like you’re saying that, if a penalty-producing offense is committed, but the refs don’t have time to call it before the clock runs out, it doesn’t count?

They also could have called a sideline warning on both teams since they flooded onto the field while the game was still not technically over. Basically nobody saw the flag and everybody thought it was over but the officials. The officials (IMHO correctly) gave everybody a little lenience due to the unusual circumstances. They set up the ball, both teams sent 11 players out there, and the players determined the outcome.

I agree with Uncle Jocko… If they had called the personal foul, I think it was after the play. So they would have two penalties, but they would not offset. LSU would get another down because of Tennessee having 13 men out there. But they would have been backed up 15 yards.

I would say this is probably true if you rephrase it: If a penalty-producing offense is committed, but the refs don’t call it before the clock runs out, it doesn’t count. Case in point: No excessive celebration penalties after a game-winning field goal as time expires.

I agree as this is what I noted as well. The school and conference is in charge of enforcing any “penalties” for after game antics which the helmet throwing would be a part of. Now if he had hit someone with it, that would be another question and might get into a gray area. I think I would actually say that the 15 yard penalty should be tacked on.

IMO, yes, because that was a pretty ridiculous pass interference call that put LSU on the one-yard line to begin with.

Can’t really fault them for how they handled the last two plays, though. Unless the LSU player was throwing his helmet at someone, I can’t see penalizing him for removing his helment after he thought the game was over. I mean, it’s also illegal for all 60-odd players to be on the field during the game, but fine once the game is over. I’d see a personal foul as different, because that’s wrong no matter when.

I think it was a timing issue. The fact that Tennessee had 13 men on the field took precedence because it was a dead-ball, pre-snap penalty.