Considering that Zimmerman’s phone calls from jail were released to the public a few days ago, it is hard to argue that his text messages are sacrosanct.
Well I hope i’m wrong because in my previous cite so I can disagree with David Kopel. 
He closed with the preceding.
Branding use of deadly force as justified is absolutely part of SYG and is absolutely making those actions lawful.
Well seeing that they are going to release Witness #9’s second statement that contains purportedly UNSUBSTANTIATED racist claims I doubt they are concerned about the texts, I was just saying it would be possible for them to be labeled as telecommunications.
Emphasis is obviously to indicate neither side is claiming Witness #9 second statement is credible.
But from the requests it seems it will be quite a busy day around the news room if it is released.
It sounds like they are going to release all the non-witness 3rd party emails that were sent to the PD without redacting the names and email addresses.
I’m sure there will be several people who wish they had thought that over before hitting send.
So lets enjoy the fairly fairly reasoned debate we are having before it returns to race.
Back to Trayvon and self defense, lets say as he thought he was next to his dad’s girlfriends house thinking he had run longer before returning to the backyard area, I could see how that may increase his fears that Zimmerman was still after him.
But there is something I can’t wrap my head around. If Trayvon went straight down the cut and Zimmerman turned right at the “back yard” area for a bit and had given up and was returning to his truck he would be heading north. Martin would have been coming from the east which would not be on his left rear side.
Not that this proves anything but has anyone produced a walk map that would fit those claims?
My totally baseless crazy speculation of the day is that it’s the flashlight.
[ul]
[li]A swab of suspected blood evidence has been collected from the flashlight. (1st batch of discovery, p. 47, 53, 60, 66)[/li][li]It is one of the few items that have a redacted part in the description and the only one that got such a redacted part later on.[/li][li]As far as I can tell, that’s one of the very few items for which the results have not been released. (p. 104ff)[/li][li]In the bond hearing Gilbreath expressed doubts about the origin of Zimmerman’s injuries and mentioned a possible “harder object” although eventually he was not willing to rule out concrete (at least there and then).[/li][li]Zimmerman names the flashlight as the one thing he had in his hands when the confrontation began but we never never hear what happened to it.[/li][li]Zimmerman specifically mentions that he thought Trayvon had something in his hands when he hit him but doesn’t really follow up on that. If Trayvon did then Zimmerman should have been able to find out when he “detained” him post mortem.[/li][/ul]
There is a 99 percent chance that this is totally wrong, though.
I don’t understand your directions. According to Zimmerman he was heading back to his truck which would have been west. Martin’s house was south of this so he would have had to go North. Zimmerman said he came at him on the diagonal which would have been Northwest.
Do you mean the entire length of the 3 buidlings area as considered common backyard? I think people will consider their patio and the area up to the sidewalk as their backyard. And even considering the whole area as a common area he still had time to walk the distance to his father’s house. It was 300 feet at the most and more likely a 1/3 of that since Zimmerman said he cut in between the houses.
It appears to me, given the space in time between when they last exchanged eye contact and the confrontation that he had ample time to go home. The question keeps coming up, why was Martin where he was? It was raining and he was on his way home. There is no logical reason other than to confront Zimmerman. If you assume Zimmerman swung first then Martin’s behavior went way beyond self defense. There appears to be a great deal of rage in his actions. An ear witness said their voices were elevated. We also know that it was Martin who engaged Zimmerman in conversation, not the other way around. combine all the evidence and what you have is Martin going out of his way to confront Zimmerman and he wasn’t in a positive state of mind going into it.
Well seeing as it is generally recomended that you DON"T go home if you think you are being followed by even the DOJ I really don’t get your point.
[
](http://ovp.uga.edu/stalking.htm)
Also under Florida law Trayvon was under no duty to retreat, why are you extending rights to Zimmerman but at the same time saying it is Trayvon’s fault for exercising his own?
Your argument really doesn’t hold any water when you afford Zimmerman every single advantage and at the same time deny the exact same privilege from Travyon.
According to your cite the action involves not going home and contacting the police. You left out the most relevant part. Had Martin done this they would have told him the police were en-route due to a suspicious person report. And according to both Zimmerman and Martin’s girlfriend, they lost sight of each other so your conclusion would be illogical.
Zimmerman’s advantage (assuming you mean SYG) occurs after being assaulted and the evidence is that he let this go on for a considerable amount of time. He knows the police are minutes away. If you’re cynical about him then he’s just waiting for them to arrive at the scene of an assault. His perceived burglar is going to be arrested.
Best case scenario for Martin is that Zimmerman attacked him and he defended himself. What he was seen doing far exceed self defense and had Zimmerman not shot him he would have been arrested based on the evidence. Zimmerman showed all the signs of a beating.
This. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin’s arm and said, “You worthless little nigger, you don’t belong in my neighborhood, the cops are coming for you, and I’m keeping you here until they do!” then he would be guilty of a battery.
Martin would be justified in using sufficient force to repel that battery.
BUT, if he gets on top of Zimmerman and beats him to the point that Zimmerman fears of death or seriously bodily injury (and because he was the initial aggressor) cannot retreat, he is STILL entitled to use deadly force as he did.
This has been stated in this thread, but posters still don’t understand it. We seem to be arguing over whether Zimmerman was the initial aggressor or not. It doesn’t matter. If a point came where he had that fear and no ability to retreat (Martin on top of him beating him) he is allowed to shoot.
If someone calls me a motherfucker, I can’t punch them.
Martin (or anyone else) can’t repel simple battery with deadly force.
This has nothing to do with SYG or Florida law. This is everywhere in the U.S.
Please show me where the duty to retreat exemption is contingent on calling the police?
I am not sure what you mean by “If you’re cynical about him then he’s just waiting for them to arrive at the scene of an assault.”
You just keep arguing more and more false dichotomies, these are not all either or situations.
Actually this IS factually wrong, Zimmerman showed the signs of at least one punch to the nose and that he hit his head. The physical evidence is contradictory his claims.
The police even say so in the interviews.
And we know that he didn’t say this because we have Martin’s girlfriend’s testimony to that effect. There is no indication at all that Zimmerman touched Martin. None. The entire argument against Zimmerman comes down to the dissection of every word he said in order to make the argument “he lied about something, therefore he lied about defending himself”. The evidence so far shows him on the receiving end of a beating. That’s the entire case.
[
](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2117884,00.html#ixzz1yeJAxG3e)
You can try to use the term “beating” but that evidence doesn’t exist, we do have evidence he was punched.
He had a broken nose and multiple cuts on the back of his head plus bruising and he was seen pinned down. Clearly there is signs of a struggle and only Zimmerman shows those signs. The state has to PROVE he didn’t feel his life threatened knowing he showed signs of a beating. We had a shooting in my area where a group of teenagers tried to break into a house that was occupied. They threw a cinder block through the front door and the occupant returned fire. No charges were filed.
Not in this thread, this thread is about the legal rights of Trayvon and a broken nose and being held down is not a beating.
So he was supposed to look up the DOJ website verbatim, while standing in the rain near some individual he felt was dangerous (“crazy and creepy”)?
More than likely, being a child followed by a creep, he didn’t have time to think his options through all the way.
Thinking something along the lines of: “I don’t want that freak knowing where my family is. I need to get out of this situation without going there” would not be unreasonable, and the stress of the situation pushed him to act based on that.
In a side note, previous in this thread I made a guess that if Zimmerman had a cheap holster and he had ran (which we don’t know at this point) that he may have had to hold his pistol in place. Which could have, had this been true, been observed by Trayvon.
With the evidence photos that were released my suspicion on the quality of the holster was confirmed, it is a cheap fabric holster with no retention.
http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/images/2012/05/ZIMMERMAN-GUN-KELTEK.jpg
If Zimmerman had run it is quite likely that he would have needed to hold the firearm in as he ran, and had Trayvon viewed that hypothetical event he would have had his “forcible felony” against Zimmerman as required by SYG.
as as been stated before by bricker, it is considered reason to believe you’re life is in danger.
He should have evaded him and called the police. You’re trying to justify Martin attacking Zimmerman but in the same light suggest Zimmerman shouldn’t defend himself.
there is nothing logical about confronting someone you fear will harm you. There is also nothing in Martin’s conversation to suggest he was in fear. That was all conjecture from his girlfriend.