As is being stalked and chased down by an armed man in the rain.
But in this thread the standard of evidence is “the preponderance of evidence” or that 51% or more of the evidence points to the claim that Trayvon felt that his life was in danger and was justified in using force.
The claim that he used “deadly force” is counter to the physical evidence despite the claims of Zimmerman.
I think it would be quite possible with what information we have to successfully argue that the preponderance of the evidence shows that Trayvon was justified in the use of non-lethal force.
Yet it was logical for Zimmerman to leave his car and chase down someone in the dark who he claimed brandished a weapon towards him?
Zimmerman claimed on the 911 call that he thought Trayvon had a gun in his waistband. Once again you are being biased in your application of these arbitrary arguments.
Starting from the very beginning we have Martin likely jumping over the wall and cutting through someone’s property. It’s the only thing that put’s him west of the entrance to the community. He’s seen just standing there looking round. He has to know this looks suspicious. They exchange looks multiple times and he takes off running. Zimmerman gets out of his car but Martin has a head start and he loses sight of him. All this time Zimmerman is on the phone to the cops. He isn’t chasing anybody. There is no visual contact at this point from either of them. At this point we have Zimmerman on record that he is going to meet the police at his car. That’s his stated intention on record. Minutes have passed where Martin has all time in the world to avoid confrontation with someone you claim poses a threat to him. There are an infinite number of things he could have done. The only thing we know for sure he did was initiate contact with Zimmerman. That is the evidence we have to work with aside from Zimmerman’s account and it fits that account.
You expect a 17 year child, on foot, to evade a crazy nut in car long enough for the cops to get there.
Given your pattern unyielding hate and judgement, it seems clear you’d condemn to death for suspicious trespassing, if he hid under a porch.
News flash, 17 year old children, especially scared ones in the rainy dark streets, do not act like survival experts/legal scholars. They do panicky things sometimes.
So your premise is the Stand Your Ground laws, which are all about confronting something you fear will harm you, are not rational. Good to know.
Well Trayvon could testify himself, but Zimmerman murdered him. She is the only window we have into his mind. “crazy and creepy” is how he described Zimmerman, according to her.
It is reasonable to fear insane creeps, especially when you’re out alone with them in a rainy dark night.
Wrong-o-again-o you are drawing conclusions without evidence while failing to address counter arguments, it is a valid debate response.
Please cite where Zimmerman claims he saw Martin jump the fence, and as a guest of a resident please show how Martin was not legally justified in being in ANY of the common areas of the complex.
According to both Zimmerman and Martin, that is what occurred. They both lost sight of each other and minutes passed before the altercation which Martin is on record as having verbally initiated. Nothing in that conversation was threatening and that’s where the situation stood before the assault.
Where do you get hate or judgment from anything I’ve said. I’ve linked the known evidence to Zimmerman’s account. Find a mirror and look for the one judging other posters. That will be you. And no, it’s not clear I’d condemn anybody to death for trespassing. Martin was shot because he was beating up Zimmerman. Trespassing is an act that warrants suspicion and surveillance followed up with a call to police. This is what Zimmerman did.
And sometimes 17 year olds act violently which is how Martin acted. What’s your point? We can only go on what evidence is available and the most undeniable aspect of this is Martin’s continued assault on Zimmerman. He was armed with his fists and used them effectively.
There is no indication from what Martin told his girlfriend that he was in the least bit scared. His girlfriend makes this speculation. His actions suggest otherwise. When asked repeatedly to run to his house he says no, “I ain’t running” and “I’m by my father’s house”. So the argument that he was avoiding his house falls apart along with the argument that he was panicky or scared. If he is where he says he is (the only evidence we can go by) then he traveled back to where the encounter took place which is consistent with Zimmerman’s account .
And Zimmerman described Martin the same way yet he didn’t shoot Martin until a considerable amount of time passed in the documented assault. My premise is based on the information available and not speculation.
Except Zimmerman is not an insane creep any more than someone skulking around houses in the rain at dusk is. Your imagination seems to only work in one direction. It’s reasonable to be suspicious of someone watching you. It’s reasonable to be suspicious of someone trespassing at dusk in the rain. It makes sense to suggest that they were suspicious of each other but at no time did either present a threat to the other. The last thing Zimmerman said was “what are you doing here”. That is not a threat. Martin was free to tell him to fuck off and that he’ll walk wherever he damn well feels like walking. No threat to Zimmerman.
I didn’t say Zimmerman claimed he jumped the fence. I said it was likely given his location coming back from the 7-Eleven. According to Zimmerman he was standing in the front yard of the house looking around.
I never said he wasn’t legally allowed to be in any of the common areas of the complex. I pointed out that he had to travel back toward the person you claim was a threat to him based on where he said he was on the phone.
Yes, you keep claiming he was at his fathers girlfriends place due to what he said to his girlfriend, yet at the same time you discount that same girlfriends claim that he was scared.
So witch is it, are the girlfriends claims trustworthy or not?
and twice he stated he wasn’t running. Where is the fear factor here? And why would someone who feared someone confront him? And why when not given a threatening answer proceed to beat the tar out of him?
If you’re speculating as to his state of mind it makes more sense that Martin was insulted by Zimmerman watching him, confronted him, and beat him based on being challenged as to his reason for being there.
Gee Whiz, creating an imaginary situation and then trying to justify particular actions by inserting partial truths from a real life situation is interesting but doesn’t really prove anything.
Martin had a right to stand his ground IF he felt he was being threatened. Everyone in FLA has the same right.
Did Martin run into the cut-thru area because he was afraid? If Martin was afraid, why didn’t he continue to run all the way to his home? Zimmerman walked across the “T” and then returned back across the “T” towards his vehicle, according to Zimmerman. That would have placed the cut thru area on Zimmerman’s left. If Martin was afraid, why did he return to confront Zimmerman? Martin approached Zimmerman from behind and to the left.
Evidence indicates that there was blood on the Skittles and the flashlight but there was no blood on the watermelon drink. Were these items tossed away during the struggle? Were they dropped? Is it possible that only two out of three items were splattered with Zimmerman’s or Martin’s blood? Yes, it is.
You don’t know what model the holster is but your sure it doesn’t have any retention feature. Maybe it contains a formed plastic shell that holds the weapon in place or there could be a strap? This isn’t a quick draw competition rig.
If Martin was afraid of Zimmerman, then why was he still hanging out at the top of the T talking to DeeDee on the phone instead of going back to Brandy Green’s house? Zimmerman was waiting for the cops to show up, but why was Martin still there? Fear of Zimmerman isn’t consistent with his actions.
Can you propose a logical reason why he would run if he was not afraid? In one statement Zimmerman claimed Martin jumped out of a bush which would be logical if he had been hiding in one of the porch areas near the T and would also fit the location of the fight if what Zimmerman said in some of his statements was true and that he fell from the punch.
I don’t know what you are claiming the this shows?
It is a cheap inside the pants nylon holster, most likely Galati. If you can show me one of this type of any brand that has internal retention device that you can not see from the outside? Almost all of them of this construction would have a retention strap which this one obviously does not have, we have pictures to show that.
It would be odd to put a padded nylon cover on a formed plastic IWB holster as all it would do is add thickness but go ahead and prove me wrong.
… If you are being followed, do not go home,
As you can see it seems quite absurd to claim that someone should go home if they think they are being followed, it seems to be against the advice of almost every group imaginable.
And you are ignoring the fact that Zimmerman couldn’t see him after he went down the T and and had a perfect opportunity to get home without Zimmerman seeing where the house was and your theory makes no sense he was only 100 yards from the house. Any reasonable person would get behind a locked door and call 911.
Apparently you need to ignore everything Deedee said except the creepy part.
Well it is great that you can armchair quarterback that…but he was under no legal obligation to do so. Deedee says he “lost him” that does not mean he thought Zimmerman wouldn’t see him if it tried to go home.
Plus Deedee’s statements are hearsay and while they are information they are not usable to meet the legal standard to disprove the right of Trayvon to stand his ground.