Did you experience parents hitting kids or vice versa?

In My Humble Opinion
101

My post wasn’t necessarily just in response to you, but I think I understand where the disconnect between what I’m writing and what you’re writing.

I am not trying to say that you’re setting yourself up for failure if you say you’re never going to hit your kids. (And that’s general ‘you’). That is, I don’t think it’s inevitable for everyone to strike one of their children at some point. What I was thinking might be a set up is such a rigid view of what constitutes abuse when you’re not even a parent yet. If you did hit one of your kids once, which I am not saying will happen, would you be able to be gentle and understanding with yourself (while also doing whatever needs doing so that you would never do it again).

The set-up for failure is not in whether the incident will occur; it is that if you do find yourself having done what you said you would never, ever do, how will you feel about yourself? You seemed to have such a black-and-white stance on this, when you’re not even a parent yet, and that felt very familiar to me.

I guess I was just trying to echo Leaffan’s statement that parenting happens in real time, even though I do not share his views on spanking as discipline. I’m a big fan of the Parenting with Love and Logic POV, but when you’re supposed to have left 10 minutes ago to drop off your kids and then make it to a meeting, and then one of them accidentally spills milk all over the kitchen floor and the other one decides that, rather than allowing you to put his pants on, he is going to flail his legs wildly and ends up kicking you in the face…well, it’s not always easy to reflect back to your child how he might be feeling. In fact, even those parents who are able to not react with a swat will probably find themselves yelling at a point like that and, frankly, one’s self-esteem as a parent takes an ass-kicking from that as well.

102

My mom spanked us occasionally. My dad knocked me off my chair at supper once for mouthing off too much for too long. I don’t feel anything negative about my mother’s spankings - she had five kids in 10 years, and if she lost her patience occasionally and gave us a swat with the first thing she could grab, I totally understand that (and my sisters and mom and I laugh about it now). Getting knocked out of my chair at supper stands out in my mind as being a couple of degrees of physical violence worse. I can understand people saying never lay a hand on your child at all, but I don’t think the two are the same thing at all.

103

I think the difference may lay in whether it becomes a learning experience or not. That’s for either the child or the adult.

104

Yeah - we learned to get the hell out of the kitchen when mom was reaching the end of her patience. :slight_smile:

105

I voted “occasionally.”

We had a few unusual twists in my family: spanking one kid to punish another, having one kid spank the others, parents threatening or attempting suicide or intentionally injuring themselves and blaming the kids. There was a lot of crazy. I love(d) my parents anyway. They didn’t want to be crazy.

106

I’ve only seen it in response when the kids do it, and even then it’s very restrained.

107

My parents spanked us regularly - usually with a stick on our bottoms or on our hands when we were older. I don’t know if it was the most ideal solution but it didn’t scar me for life or anything. I’m actually grateful to my parents for my strict upbringing, in hindsight. Maybe it could have been achieved without the spankings, but doesn’t matter at this point.

At school (in Korea) we were beaten much worse than anything I ever experienced at home. It made for a miserable six years before graduation, but it’s so accepted there that I just ended up getting used to it.

108

In the three cases I was a part of (the backslap to my brother and to the other kid, my spanking), there was also a factor of the child learning where The Line was. I don’t think Littlebro has threatened anybody ever again; I’ve never pushed anybody’s buttons repeatedly like I kept pushing Dad’s that day; the other kid, I understand he stopped using that kind of language and, again, to tell when someone is just yapping from when they’re serious.

I know Dad would never have struck one of us on the face if it hadn’t been a reflex act; he reacted to the threat of being scalded and having a table dropped on him. That’s not a normal situation, there is not much of a thing as a “normal” response to it.

109

This isn’t what the statistics show. All reliable evidence shows reasonable corporal punishment is slightly beneficial to children. (Search my earlier posts on this subject for the cites. I’m sick of providing them in threads like this.)

Earlier you said you doubt Leaffan’s kids believe that he loves them. What makes you think this? Something like 90% of all British parents admit to administering corporal punishment on their kids. Do you think 90% of British kids believe their parents don’t love them? I was smacked as a child, yet had no doubt that my parents loved me.

110

I’m pretty sure I was spanked when I was very young, never hit though. I remember being a real dick once as a young teen before I headed for the door, and my Mom grasped at the collar of my shirt but scratched my back pretty badly with her nails. She was very angry at the time, but in the space of about 10 minutes came to apologize profusely. I think spanking is okay only in situations where you’ve got life or death lessons (“Do NOT run out onto the road smack smack”) and children too young to understand why it’s a bad idea.

111

Is hitting the same thing as getting back handed? My parents disaplined me out of love and I’m thankful for it today. I only got back handed when I said a bad word and spanked when I did something very wrong. Like something life threatening or just plain wrong like stealing. I usually never did it again.

Some of my best lessons were learned that way. Once I was at my grandmas and my mom called that dinner was ready. I made some flippant remark about my mom and out of nowhere I’m up against the wall and my Grandmother looks me right in the eye and says, That is my daughter your talking about. She cuffs me in the head and says get your butt to the table now. Wow, it really hit me then that to put down my Mom is to put down my Grandma. A good lesson in respect.

112

Thank you Captain. I didn’t realize there might be cultural influences coming into play. I’m originally from Scotland.

113

Yes,and yes.

114

When I was a kid, in the late '60s/early '70s, corporal punishment at home was generally accepted. I have vague recollections of being grabbed roughly or slapped in anger on occasion, generally in response to a physical attack or tantrum by me.

While I’ve never resorted to such with my own child, the “in anger” applications I recall seem appropriate – carrying the connotation “Using force to settle a dispute is unacceptable, and using it against someone bigger than you is also dumb”.

Corporal punishment applied not in anger – dispassionately telling a child to report for spanking, or some such – has always seemed deeply creepy to me.

115

Never. Spankings were always measured and controlled in my family. When emotions were overwhelming, there was no physical violence. My mother usually cried. My sister often raged and hit, but she was a pansy. She was usually the type to throw a bottle, run, and barricade the door.

As I grew older, I never saw the reason to hit a child, ever. Imho, it’s like stepping on ants: you are obviously bigger and stronger, why do you need to prove it?

116

My stepdad was (and is) a generally affable guy, but he’s what you might call “excitable,” in that certain things can cause him to go off the rails.

I was 12 when my mom married him, and I got three stepbrothers in the deal, who, unusually for the day, my stepdad had custody of. They’re a year, two years, and five years younger than me.

This was not a frequent occurrence, but occasionally in the few years we were in the same household, my brothers would do something radical enough to provoke an explosion in my stepdad.

And what an explosion it was. He would just completely lose control of himself, shouting and screaming like a madman and beating on those poor kids in truly fearsome fashion, to the point that they would beg pitifully for mercy.

As I wasn’t his son, he never did this to me (though he was probably tempted a few times). It’s the one really horrible memory I have from an otherwise good childhood/adolescence.

117

Having read some of the other posts, it occurs to me that I should post “the rest of the story” with regard to my stepbrothers.

The two closest in age to me are well-adjusted, responsible guys with very nice families. The youngest has had serious problems all of his life…many of his own making for sure, but I’ve often wondered if he was of an age when this kind of treatment from my stepdad, as infrequent as it was, might have contributed to his difficulties.

118

Perhaps the idea that children won’t believe their parents when they say they love them has a lot to do with how the violent behavior (on the part of the parents) is balanced with the loving behavior.

My dad was abusive, full stop. He beat my mom until they split up. Then he beat my stepmom – who was a much more ferocious fighter-backer. She clubbed him over the head with an ashtray once, necessitating stitches, and IIRC, that was the last time he tried to hit her. He found god, but still was very abusive.

My sister and I lived with him from age 12-18 (I’m the younger, she only lived there three years). In that time, I was “spanked” with a big wooden paddle that had holes drilled in it. I was backed up against the wall with Dad’s fist pulled back ready to strike (my stepmom stepped in the way and sent me to my room to get him to cool off). There were many, many threats about the violence he’d inflict if we did XYZ. Usually, the threats were graphic, very specific, and scary. We were not allowed to cry, especially after taking a few hits. My sister was pulled out of bed by her hair. I still think I’m a horrible person if I allow myself to cry in front of someone. He thought we were purposely trying to be manipulative if he hit us and we cried.

25 years later and to this day, I still do not believe either one of them when they tell me they love me. It’s doubletalk bullshit to justify their own violence in their own minds.

And I actually think that is about the fact that there was no positive reinforcement. I’ve never heard the words “I’m proud of you” spoken to me from my dad. Not once. I’ve heard him say it to other people, but not to me or to my sister. He never once told me I did a good job at school (on a test or a paper or something) or at a chore (of which there was no shortage at our house). He did not really encourage me when I showed interest in trying something new. The only attention we got was when we did something wrong and usually, the punishment was way out of proportion to the crime. When we did right, there was no mention of it. So we walked on eggshells 24/7 because there was no way of knowing when doing right would suddenly and magically became wrong and you’d catch a backhand in the face. The rules were inconsistent and changed frequently.

And they seemed to have a “needs only” policy when it came to money, despite not being terribly broke/poor. (Sometimes things were a little tight, but they both worked and neither was unemployed while I lived with them.) If I wanted to take dance or music lessons, I was not allowed because I didn’t need them. I didn’t need new clothes for school (we could alter last year’s jeans). I didn’t need Nikes for gym shoes when I could wear $5 Keds (It was the 80s). By the time I was old enough to babysit, and then work, pretty soon I didn’t need dental visits or new glasses. I found myself paying for teeth cleanings, glasses, and contacts out of my own money. Both my sister and I got jobs asap so we could have things like a school yearbook or tickets to the football games or burgers with our friends after the game or spending money for a school field trip. I bought my own clothes from about age 15 on, paid for most of my own medical/dental care, put gas in the car when I used it, and paid for my own lunch at school. I didn’t need college, so I had to pay for that myself as well.

I saw other kids’ parents paying for stuff my friends didn’t need and those kids didn’t also get hit. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to say that my parents wouldn’t spend big bucks on frivolous shit and therefore I think they don’t love me. I’m saying: they were physically abusive, they were emotionally abusive and there was very little positive reinforcement or interaction to counteract the traumatizing effects of the more abusive actions. And we were deprived of things that it appeared most other parents did for their kids, unless we could come up with the money ourselves somehow. I think that might be okay to some degree when a kid is 16 or 17, but a 12-year-old shouldn’t have to come up with $20 for a dental visit co-pay, IMO. I think that is an unreasonable expectation to put on a kid that age.

The overall pattern of behavior is what makes me not believe them. If 9 out of 10 interactions result in some form of abuse and just 1 interaction is positive, which do you think I will view as “real?” Hint: What is real to me is what I see most often. I saw more anger and violence and control than love, support or encouragement, so what am I to think? That, when I was beaten with a wooden paddle at age 14 that my dad did it for my own good because he loves me? Then where was the acknowledgment for when I got straight As that same year?

When my dog pees on the floor, I don’t beat her because I love her. I take her outside and reinforce her housebreaking training. Beating a dog just makes it fear you. I think beating children does the same thing.

DISCLAIMER: Smacking your kid once or twice in its life, to me, is not the same thing at all. Overall patterns.

119

I was never “spanked.” The one time my mom thought that we deserved a good spanking my dad couldn’t bring himself to do it. However, I have many, many memories of my dad striking me in anger. It was always without warning and even if you believed children deserved spanking, it was usually without justifiable provocation. One time he slapped me upside the head repeatedly for “rolling my eyes” at him. I remember I didn’t even know what that meant.

Like Dogzilla, I can’t cry in front of people. My dad always thought that was intentional manipulation and I can think of two very specific instances when my tears were due to an altercation with my mother (who would also hit, scratch, and pull hair without a second thought) that sent him into a red-faced rage.