Didn't vote? Then shut up!

The BBQ Pit
81

I don’t know about other states, but in Maryland, employers are required to give their employees time off to vote if they work long shifts.
IIRC, they even have to allow them to do it on their lunch break, even if they work an 8-hour shift.

Again, lezlers said:
**

**My in-laws have never registered to vote. Their sole reason for not doing so is that they don’t want to get called for jury duty. :rolleyes:
It just amazes me how much they bitch about the state of the government.
Even if they don’t like candidates for certain offices, they could at least vote on referendums and propositions!
One time I did speak up and say, “You know, you’re really not in a position to complain since you never vote.”
They looked at me like I had three heads.

82

Guess what? Even if it’s state law, there are quite a few employers, I’d bet, who ignore it.

83

From what was said on several online and tv new sources the soft money ban begins AFTER this current election, and thus things like ballot re-counts cannot be paid for by soft money. Both parties have lodged protests about this and are asking some sort of electorial dohickey to allow them to get around what they passed.

Because if I understand correctly, the next election cycle started AFTER the poles closed.

84

Nope, I’d chalk it up to apathy again. How many people actually work a 13-hour shift from 7:00 am to 8:00 pm with no breaks?
And if someone does work that long, they are well within their rights to say, “I’m going to lunch, and I’m voting, too. I’ll be back as soon as I can.”
If someone just thinks, “Oh, I bet my boss won’t let me off, it’s no use even asking,” well, that’s their own lazy fault.

85

I vote the anger those of us who didn’t vote are getting.

What about those of you who voted for the amoral, shit flinging, lying, dishonest shacks of shit that are in so many public offices?

This is based off of those politicians that have been up for ethics review, negative campaigning (cough soft money from both parties), and those who never bother to follow through with their political platforms or represent the people who elected them.

Sure there are some politicians I like, but unfortunatly I can’t vote for them because I don’t live in their state.

For the last two weeks I’ve had to put up with badly remixed state trooper video of a political canidate getting pulled over for something… the ad makes it seem like he killed someone, but it was probably a traffic stop… and OVER and OVER the ad plays a 3 second sound bite taken out of context.

“Too important” over and over again.
While the voice over is saying, “He’s too important for the DUE processes of law”

So vote REPUBLICAN, since the republicans have such a GOOD track reccord of supporting due process.

Unless you happen to be a foreign national who may never have seen a newspaper, and may not be able to read.
Let us not go into the fact that I FUNDAMENTALLY REFUSE to vote for ANY person with any OVERT religious affiliation. Religion has NOTHING to do with politics in a secular state.

The whole pledge of allegience event kinda upset me a little bit.

I suppose my fundamental problem with the whole thing is this:

I do not trust anyone who willingly goes out of their way to seak fame, fortune or power. Most of the canidates I’ve been ABLE to vote for all are very transparent in their drives and motivations. Than and in the 6 or 7 various political debates I’ve worked on and reported on both politicians were idiots barely able to stop from drooling on themselves. Jesus christ people, we’re a country of a quart billion people. Sure you CAN vote for someone who parrots ideas you like to hear, but what the fuck gave you the right to force your view on anyone else? Should we all vote for people who can rationally think through both sides and reach the best accomidation for everyone?

But oddly enough those sorts of people never get elected.

McCain and Liberman… I’d vote for either one of them. But even that would be iffy. If I could could vote for them, I’d actually consider registering to vote.

86

Jury duty has been mentioned a few times.

Admittedly, I’m only familiar with a few states - but in them, the jury pool isn’t just created from voter registration records, but also from drivers license records, ID card records, and public utility records. (In fact, the only time I’ve ever been called for jury duty was in a state that I no longer physically present in, was never a resident of, and certainly never voted in - I was absentee for WA the entire time I was there.)

Do these people also not drive, have their own generators and wells, and never write checks?

87

Jury duty has been mentioned a few times.

Admittedly, I’m only familiar with a few states - but in them, the jury pool isn’t just created from voter registration records, but also from drivers license records, ID card records, and public utility records. (In fact, the only time I’ve ever been called for jury duty was in a state that I no longer physically present in, was never a resident of, and certainly never voted in - I was absentee for WA the entire time I was there.)

Do these people also not drive, have their own generators and wells, and never write checks?

88

I’m astonished no one has quoted Robert Heinlein yet…

89

Care to explain how NOT VOTING is a conscientious decision?

Explain to me, if you would, how it sends ANY STATEMENT or makes a difference of any kind.

90

Here in Maryland, jury duty notices were pulled from voter registration roles for many years.
I know they changed it years ago, at least 10 years, IIRC, but it might be more. They now do it from driver’s license records.
I also tried explaining that to my in-laws, but of course, they knew better. The fact that they’ve never been called for JD is proof enough for them.
They’re also the type, if they did get called for JD, to come up with any number of creative excuses for not serving.
Model citizens they ain’t.

The bitching has already started. It’s only been two days, the new Republican governor hasn’t even taken office yet, and my in-laws are already complaining about how he’s going to ruin the state. Just shut up already!

91

I’ve already explained, but I’ll repeat it.

Some people believe that the system, as it stands, is corrupt or not functioning as it should. Therefore, they refuse to participate in such a system as a matter of principle. In their opinion, it is wrong to participate in such a system.

Some people believe that

Are they right? I don’t care.
Is their approach correct? I don’t care.
Is their approach likely to change anything? I don’t care and I’m not even sure they believe they will change things. They simply refuse to participate.
Why don’t I care? Because I’m not advocating or defending their reasons. I’m simply saying that there are rational reasons for not voting and when one does not vote, it does not automatically mean that they should “just shut up”.

One of the people I met who didn’t was an economics professor whose works were smuggled into Communist Poland under martial law. His writings influenced domestic policies as well. It is utterly absurd to say that his refusal to vote means that he shouldn’t have complained.

There are some people who don’t vote. There are some people whose opinions are stupid. But they are not always the same person. Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I judge a person’s views and complaints based on the merit of the views and complaints rather than on whether or not they voted.

92

How does not voting make a difference?

93

It’s a wonderfull thing that my state has a vote by mail system, so this excuse won’t work if you lived in Oregon. :slight_smile:

Sure, you have the RIGHT to complain under the First Amendment, but I have the RIGHT not to give you any fucking sympathy if you refused to get up off your lazy ass and do your part to change who runs the government.

You know why marijuana is illegal? Because pot heads are too busy hitting the hash pipe to go down to the polls and vote for a candidate that will legalize marijuana, and then bitch when they get arrested.

Want to know why 18 year olds can vote and be drafted and are treated like adults in nearly every manner, except that if they tried to walk into a bar they will be thrown out because they are “minors”?

Because 80% of 18, 19, and 20 year olds are too apathetic to lift a finger to change the government from fucking them over. I’m one of those 20% who gives a shit, and it appears I’m fighting an uphill battle.

“Don’t blame me, I voted for Kudos!”

94

OK, I’m sure that somewhere, a doctor had to perform a 12 hour emergency surgery to save a life and couldn’t get to the polls. These things happen. He, and the patient, could not be expected to vote under those circumstances.

I’m sure there’s a single mother whose 3 kids all came down with an intestinal virus on election day, and the kids were spewing from both ends. I applaud her decision to stay home and nurse the kiddies back to health. I’m sure she would rather have gone to the polls, but these things happen.

But I think those things are pretty fucking rare. Those that want absentee ballots can get them. All they have to do is try.(and really, that’s all we’re asking for) Most folks know in advance if they are working a long shift on election day, or if they have kids or elderly folks to take vcare of. And they plan for it. Again, it’s not hard.

But most of the folks that didn’t vote, they weren’t doctors and nurses who just couldn’t get away. They were lazy, whiney, apathetic chimps who couldn’t be bothered to do their civic duty.

95

How does not reading a post help with comprehension?

96

And I applaud them for their lofty principles.

If the system is soooooooo terrible that they dasn’t soil their precious bodily fluids to vote against someone, then cool!

What they’ve done is make MY vote that much more powerful. Th’ more people that don’t vote the more powerful my vote becomes. Enough of these “I won’t participate to clean up the system, I’ll just stand back and hold my nose” types and my vote’ll be worth tons more!

So as someone who can always find someone to at bare minimum, vote against allow me to humbly request that this process continues and you (not you in specific, Zoff ) continue to stick to your guns.

Fenris (who notes that refusing to vote because the system is naughty is like refusing to wash the dishes 'cause they’re dirty.)

97

You’re probably right. But I’m not so sure they’re worse than ignorant people who vote.

I vote and I think voting is generally a good idea. All I’m saying is that the “if you don’t vote don’t complain” argument is bad. There are many circumstances in which a rational and engaged person would not vote. I mentioned that if there had not been amendments on my ballot I might not have voted, yet I’m very engaged in foreign and domestic issues. But if my ballot had only contained two unopposed candidates, voting would have been a purely symbolic thing. To say I should vote in that situation would be to raise form over substance. That’s a practical reason some people don’t vote.

Others don’t vote as a form of protest. Whether you agree with their protest or think it will change anything, it’s their decision and I’m certainly not going to make a blanket statement that they should shut up.

If a person complains, I listen to what they say. If it’s intelligent, I listen and might debate. If it’s stupid, I disregard it. I don’t have to look to an arbitrary definition to decide whether they have anything to say.

The man I mentioned in a previous post helped hasten the fall of communism, yet didn’t vote. He had things to say that should be heard. If somebody chooses to disregard it because he didn’t vote then I’d say that person has the problem. Of course, most people who don’t vote don’t have such an impact. But the example shows that using arbitrary criteria is wrong.

98

To protest the bullshit of the system, I think it’s better to go in and vote for some third party canidate - or even someone that isn’t even running - so long as they represent your view - even though you know they have no chance in hell.

If you stay home, the politicians assume you’d probably vote for them, but you were lazy. If you go out of your way specifically to vote for someone that you know will lose, as a protest to them, it makes a bigger statement.

Hell, voting mickey mouse is a better form of protest than staying home.

99

Zoff, I really don’t want to make you target-for-today but I have to point out that, even if those people don’t want to support hte system they ARE by not electing to attempt change.

Instead they choose to benefit from the system by living under its protections and economic system while protesting the politcal system from which those benefits derive.

The simple fact is that, with the political system in the United States there is a mechanism for enacting change and that system is the ability to vote. If one believes that one cannot effect change through the ballot box then it becomes evident that one is in the minority.

In effect, what I’m hearing is, “people don’t agree with me so I’m not going to play”.

100

Fucking Christ, listen to some of you. Okay, so you vote! You’re a proud participant in the democratic process. Huzzah for you! Is there a prize being given out at the end of this thread for “Best Voter”?

Jesus Christ I feel like I’m at a fucking revival meeting. “I’m a best voter!” “No I am!” “Well I hate non-voters a LOT!” “Well I think they’re SCUM!” “I think they’re DOG SHIT!” Do you folks have a bumper sticker saying, “In case of ELECTION, this car will be unmanned!!”

Good God, most people I know have to hold their noses while they vote because the process sickens them so. They sit there voting for the lesser of two evils, knowing full well that less evil is still evil. Most of them think that they’re only choosing between being fed horse shit or cow shit, but other people will get mad at them if they don’t choose a shit to be fed. They vote for Candidate A because they despise Candidate B, and even though they don’t like A, A sees their vote as a mandate for his mission, whatever it might be, but unfortunately there’s no way to cast a negative vote without casting a positive vote.

Our voting system is hugely flawed, and could be cleaned up, except that it can only be done so by the people that benefit from the flaws, so it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon. Talk about if you don’t vote, don’t bitch - how about all the people that supposedly want term limits but keep voting in the same Antediluvian senators year after year?

So you vote and are proud to participate in the system. Wheee! Only three more elections and you’ll be able to fart the Star Spangled Banner. Now let’s start a thread about how much we hate child molesters and then we can all boast about how many children we didn’t molest today!

I’m glad to see people interested in politics but jeez people.