I work as a bartender at the American Legion. The topic of politics comes up fairly regularly. Politics bore the shit out of me and since I have no interest in anything a politician might have to say, I don’t vote. Might I add that since I don’t vote, I feel that I have no right to bitch so I don’t do that either. With election time drawing nearer, I have more and more customers asking for whom I am going to place my vote. The looks I have received upon my declaration of non-voter status have been priceless. I had a woman tell me that it is my duty as an American to get out there and vote. I patiently(well maybe not so much)explained to her that I have no clue what any of the candidates stand for. I feel that it is better to not vote than to make an uninformed vote. Even my government professor agreed with me. She proceeded to tell me that it doesn’t matter if I know who I am voting for as long as I do it. She said that all I have to do is pick a name that I like and cast my vote.
Well what if the majority of voters did that and ended up voting in the antichrist?
Saddam Hussein is an interesting name…should I vote for someone like that? She told that it doesn’t matter if we vote in the antichrist…there will always be another election. All I could think was WTF? :dubious:
If this is in the wrong forum I apologize and would appreciate correct placement.
As an American citizen, it isn’t your duty to vote–it’s your duty to be informed and vote. If you aren’t informed, please don’t vote.
Having said that, this November’s election will be the first I’ve ever voted in, and I’ve been legal since before the last election… so we’re sort of in the same boat.
I’m torn here. On the one hand I was brought up to believe it’s important for everybody to vote who’s eligible. Otherwise, the government ends up being chosen by a minority of the population (which is the case, given low voter turnouts). On the other hand, your reasoning is sound and you already recognize that not voting means you lose the right to expect anybody to listen to your complaints.
Do what you want, but if you’re going to be working at an American Legion hall don’t be surprised if people there are put out by your decision and try to convince you to vote.
I work well more than 40 hours a week executing an oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States.” As a result of my job, there are rights that I don’t have: I can’t badmouth the President, I can’t leave the country without permission, and so on. I work my ass off so that you can say or do damn near whatever you want – and to me, your apathy just doesn’t cut it. I’m not going to say I “protect your right to vote” because I never had to fight in a war to defend this country. But hundreds of thousands of Americans have died to preserve that right; millions spend a twenty-year career in the service and make defending your form of government their life’s work. So I’m going to ask you to give a little bit back.
Pick an issue, any issue you feel strongly about. Even an issue like taxes or space-based lasers. Liquor laws. Any issue you like.
Spend an hour – just one hour! – researching the issue. Ask yourself, “which of these candidates is more likely to do what I want?” Spend another hour watching whichever of the debates covers your chosen issue. Splurge and watch for an hour and a half. Register to vote this week (in some states you’re already too late). And then get your ass out there and vote.
I’m asking for three hours of your time. Two short movies or one really long one. An evening bowling. Whatever. Three hours between now and November. It’s your right not to vote, but just like burning the flag, it’s a right that should be exercised very seriously – unless you have an explicit reason not to vote, go out and vote.
So what if it does? Chances are the same guy gets elected if everyone voted. Shoot, there’s only 2 guys with a reasonable shot and all of the people who don’t vote were probably going to vote the same way as the people who did vote.
Why? I say you can’t complain if you vote for the guy who won.
Well, it can’t really be proved, but they run surveys with 1500 people in them with margin of error ± 3%. Essentially, an election polls a hundred million people. The margin of error between that poll and the true national preference is miniscule.
Compound that with the fact that a national poll is not even how an election is decided, but rather through the electoral college, and you’re really not going to find an important reason why having 99% of registered voters is any better than having 40% of registered voters show up.
(you can compound that with what difference it really makes whether one rich pro war white guy gets elected over some other rich pro war white guy but that’s another debate.)
melondeca, I must admit I’m just flummoxed by your statement that:
Probably because I firmly believe that, as a citizen in a democracy, I have an obligation to 1) educate myself about both the candidates and the issues that they stand for and 2) vote for the candidate that best represents my beliefs as to how this country should be governed.
Yes, politics can be boring but sometimes it just isn’t about being entertained.
You don’t have a right to complain, because you had a chance at having a voice in how things work, and chose not to. Either pick up a shovel and help dig, or shut up telling me how.
Again I must wonder what gets into people who tell me I can’t complain unless I vote. The implicit assumption is that by voting, I have done everything required of me to bring about a more palatable state of affairs. Nothing could be further from the truth: Bush, Kerry, Nader, Badnarik - not a single one of those guys would, were they installed as president, do very much to ease my mind about the direction of my country’s course.
Until my point of view is more widely accepted - if indeed it ever is; I’ve got my doubts - voting will do a whole lot less than proselytizing the libertarian perspective. Even were a libertarian president by some fluke elected, the mindset of the country is such that he would be impeached before he could do any good as I see it.
One person here has suggested that I vote based on a single issue. What issue do I choose? I want lower taxes; maybe I should vote for Bush. But I loathe his stance on international politics. Do I wish I had voted for Gore in the last election? No - I loathe his brand of environmentalism. What’s a guy to do? Waste two hours on someone who’ll be lucky to get one percent of the popular vote, and who would have to act against my wishes to appease 99% of the American people anyway?
People died so I could vote? People died so I could look at hardcore dominance porn. May the lord save me if I do neither.
You really don’t have an obligation to educate yourself. You have the right to vote and you feel like you should educate yourself about it.
But, if you’re like me, you realize a couple things.
You can educate yourself all day long and about half the people are still going to think you came to the wrong conclusion.
Your vote doesn’t make a difference in what happens anyway, so you can spend a lot of time educating yourself for nothing. I call that wasting time.
No, what you’re missing is that voting isn’t like telling me how to bake a pie or dig a hole.
Voting does nothing. One vote doesn’t get a guy elected nor does it give a party a stronger (or less strong) mandate. Voting is futile and it’s not worth my time, energy, or gasoline to go do it.
I refuse to believe that the fact that you decided to drive to polls and cast a vote which had NO MORE effect than me staying at home inherently gives you some privilege of complaint that I’m not entitled to. And all the “voters” saying so doesn’t make it so.
Cheese Monster, I understand what you’re saying but…is there no local issue that you’re passionate about? If you say you cannot in good conscience vote for anything at the federal level, fine, I do understand. But one vote has and does make a difference on issues decided at a local and state level. Trunk, the main issue I have with what you are saying, frankly, is your militant refusal to accept that any vote could change anything. And my analogy is actually quite good. While you may end up on the short of the stick because of your refusal to vote against something, what insults me is that you benefit from other things that people like photopat, sattua, me and several others on this board worked very hard indeed to get heard. That you ride our coattails to obtain advantages you refuse to lift your lazy finger to get is disheartening to say the least.
It doesn’t matter if you vote or not, you always have the right to complain. Because this is a free country, of the people, for the people, and by the people.
But if you don’t vote, you have no voice in how the country works. Which defeats the purpose of having a democracy in the first place. I am baffled by people who appear to be proud of their lack of participation. If you’re so apathetic that you don’t care at all about what happens in this country, you must live a sheltered, self-centered existence. I know I’m approaching Pit territory here, but there’s no vitriol in my words - I’m not angry, only confused. I wouldn’t want to know anyone who is that oblivious to anything outside their own personal bubble.
*But if you don’t vote, you have no voice in how the country works. *
You thinking you have a voice in how the country works is an illusion.
Which defeats the purpose of having a democracy in the first place.
It doesn’t defeat the purpose of having a democracy because the government is still elected by the people (sort of). We just don’t need all the people to do it.
I am baffled by people who appear to be proud of their lack of participation.
Don’t be baffled. I feel enlightened that I’ve realized this.
If you’re so apathetic that you don’t care at all about what happens in this country, you must live a sheltered, self-centered existence.
I’m not apathetic about what happens in this country. I’m just aware that my voting has no effect on it. And my existence is neither sheltered, nor self-centered.
I know I’m approaching Pit territory here, but there’s no vitriol in my words - I’m not angry, only confused.
You’re confused because your whole life trusted people like your parents, your teachers, Drew Barrymore and Bill Clinton have told you “your vote makes a difference,” and told you, “its your civic duty” and told you “people died for you to have this right.” Those are all things that you should examine and not just accept. That’s as much your duty as anything.
I wouldn’t want to know anyone who is that oblivious to anything outside their own personal bubble.
I have actually known people who are oblivious to anything outside their own personal bubble, and they’re somewhat interesting. FWIW, I’m not one of them.
You are correct: this is a free country and I am exercising my right NOT to vote. Just like you exercised your right to call me an oblivious person. Don’t get me wrong, I take no offense at your statement…you can feel anyway you wish about me. I am still not going to change my mind about voting any time in the near future.
In answer to the OP–If you don’t like discussing politics, I’d suggest you stop telling American Legion members that you don’t vote. Try something like, “I prefer not to discuss politics while I’m working. I could lose out on some tips if I say the wrong thing.” Any of your customers would accept that, and you wouldn’t have to listen to their reasons why you should vote, or why you should vote for a particular person or ballot measure.
By the same token, you should have realized you’d get the same response here on the boards. I’m starting to wonder if you actually do like to talk politics, even if that’s only because your stance upsets people.