But if you removed that one vote, the result would still be the same so that vote didn’t really make a difference.
Shoot, the last election, one of the closest in history, we could have removed entire BUSH states and the result would have been the same. You think one vote in one state makes a difference?
You know, you’ve converted me. Voting is stupid. Let’s have a totalitarian government! I mean, having a voice in government, not having a voice in government, there’s no difference! I’m gonna vote for the fascists next…
From now until the day you die, every day after the election, check the results in the paper. Imagine you changed your vote on every single issue. See if one time, on one issue between now and the day you die, your vote would have made a difference.
That’s all I’m saying. Your vote is not a voice. No one in power cares that you showed up on election day. It’s nothing. It’s a fart in the wind, as they say. If you really want a voice there are things you can do: start a foundation, start a lobbying group, assassinate someone. But pulling the lever is pretty much the LEAST you can do.
Oh, might I add that your ability to grasp nuance is astounding. It’s either we all vote, or we’re for a totalitarian regime. :rolleyes:
In essence, yes, that is what you are doing. You are giving the government the right to choose how you will live your life, what rights you do and do not have. Sounds pretty totalitarian to me.
I have to ask, and I seriously don’t intend offense, since you haven’t taken any by similar comments in this thread. Why have you paid for a subscription to a message board that has dedicated itself to the eradication of ignorance when you’re so eager to embrace it and flaunt it?
While one can’t argue that one vote really makes a difference (in the scheme of things) we know that collectively they do. It’s okay for one person, or a handful of people, to say “my vote doesn’t matter” and they’d be right. When 1 million people in a state all stay home and say the same thing, there is a collective impact. I’m sure that’s why people react strongly to the argument that “your vote doesn’t mean a thing.”
You could make that same argument about giving $20 to cancer research. $20 buys what, three test tubes? That won’t cure cancer. But if many people donate $20, you’ve got something.
More importantly I want to address the idea that votes only determine who wins the race, end of story. Voting is one way to express my opinion. I believe it matter whether an issue or a candidate wins by a landslide or a thin margin. I will cast my vote even if it’s on the losing side of a referendum, or for a candidate with no chance of victory. That stuff does get noticed, and it can influence policy and communication and future candidates and all sorts of stuff. If not on a national level, certainly at more local levels. On election day, there is only one way I can send that message–by casting my one measly vote.
Jurph, your whole post is probably the most well-reseasoned argument to bring to bear on non-voters. You are my new hero, and I’m using this argument from now on.
Well, I’m on your side of this argument in general (I think voting is important).
However, I don’t think staying home on election day is the same as handing your rights over to the government. If anything, you’re leaving those rights in the hands of your fellow citizens who do vote. Maybe these non-voters people have a core level of confidence in the Constitution. Perhaps they believe that the rights they most care about and value really aren’t at risk if they stay home, that their lives aren’t changed much if Candidate A wins instead of Candidate B. You can argue about whether or not that confidence is misplaced–lord knows we’ve burned plenty of bandwidth discussing the 2nd amendment and the Patriot Act–but that’s another thread.
I am all about voting, but I think the metaphor of totalitarianism is not a good fit.
(I’ll use the converse of Jurph’s arguement, and add a profit motive!)
I’ll pay you $10 on election day if you’ll let me drive you to a polling place, then let me put a blindfold on you, point your finger at a lever and push it. You’ve lost very little time, gained a ten-spot, and I’m that much surer the guy I want will get elected.
Hey, if you won’t vote once, how 'bout helping ME vote TWICE! Everybody wins!
[sub](at least everybody I’m interested in wins)[/sub]
I agree with this assessment, and it is why, in the past 2 and current presidential elections, I vote 3rd party. NY is going to go democrat; I really want to see George Bush out of office, but I’m not sold on putting Kerry in office. My way of protest is to be in the marginal number of voters showing no confidence in either major party candidate. It’s symbolic.
State and local politicians have much more to gain by listening to their constituents. Your vote does mean something at these levels, even the no confidence vote.
Just to let you know (and I realize you weren’t being serious), but paying someone to vote for the candidate of your choice is a federal offense (a felony, I believe).
I would only urge you to rent and watch Fahrenheit 9/11, and/or spend a little bit of time at these sites watching a few short flash animations. It doesn’t take much time, and most of them are quite interesting.
Take Back the Media (may have to turn your speakers down, the music ranges from great to horrific)
A few favorites, but I like them all: Army of One (music by the Cranberries), Murder By Numbers (music by Sting),Baghdad Snapshot Action (music by Louie Armstrong), 911: An American Requiem
Oddly, though I agree with you in principle (as does my boyfriend, who will vote for the Libertarian guy if he votes at all) I’m voting for Kerry not because I’m all that fond of him, but because he’s the one who has anything like an actual chance at beating Bush, and I consider Bush so dangerous that we’ve GOT to get him out of there.
It’s not like Louisiana is going to go Democratic, unless something really strange happens, but I’m voting anyway.
A vote’s a vote – it’s not what your vote does, it’s what large numbers of like-minded people can do. The whole point of a democracy is that your vote, while vanishingly small, is not meaningless. The difference between one-millionth of the population and zero is small, but finite. Add up one million people not voting, and you still have zero votes. Add up half of them deciding to give a fuck on election day, and suddenly you’ve got enough votes – if distributed serendipitously – to turn the tide in Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, and Colorado in the 2000 election.
Another refutation of your assertion that it does “nothing” – who has more say in whether an Iraqi village gets bombed by American warplanes: the inhabitants of that village, or your average American citizen? I’ll give you a hint: he probably doesn’t speak Arabic, and when you say “football” he’s thinking “brown and pointy.” It’s you. America’s influence in the world is wide-reaching; our economic and military policies can have catastrophic effects on thousands or millions of lives, and yet only about 250 million people in the world have any say whatsoever in how that comes about. You’re one of them. Six billion people in the world, and massive changes that affect all of them are being brought about by the action – or inaction – of 2% of them. If you sit there and a President gets elected who decides to ignore Darfur in Sudan, you are complicit in their murder. How’s that grab you for “no effect”?
I agree with you that the difference between the two major parties is vanishingly small. But “no difference” is a lazy, selfish, apathetic lie. If you think that there’s literally no difference, and that pisses you off, then you ought to consider a 3rd party candidate. If every non-voter decided “I’ve had enough of this Left vs. Right shit” and voted for a third-party candidate, American politics would never be the same.
As for Tygr’s suggestion, yeah, it’s a crime, but I have several apathetic friends who ask me “hey, I know you’re big into politics. Who should I vote for?” That’s one more way you could cast your vote. Find someone whose views you respect and vote as they intend to vote.
It doesn’t take a lot of time. It doesn’t take a lot of effort. Take a little responsibility for yourself, for your country, for your planet. Get your shit together and vote.
Right! But I’ll ASK Trunk to vote for the candidate who’ll remove such a silly, useless and out-dated law from the register. And since I appreciate his civic-mindedness, I’ll buy him a case of beer. (Hey, it works for politicians, it should work for me - I’ll just call myself a personal lobbyist!)
Look, no-one’s addressed this in this thread so far, but I think there’s an aspect of the OP’s indifference that is really offensive. Ask the expats, the exiles, the defectors… anyone who’s fought like hell to get to this country and finally experience real freedom. Ask if they ever miss the opportunity to exercise their most fundamental, civic, democratic responsibility. For most, it is the one freedom that they NEVER take for granted. Therein lies the root of much of our discontent with the attitudes of civic laziness in the OP: the fact that so many have given up so much to have this freedom, yet so many of us here take it for granted, all the way to the point of voluntarily giving it up! :mad:
I don’t have the luxury of arguing what difference one vote makes. It’s the difference that one person makes. A friend of mine was beaten, nearly to death, so that I could vote. Voting is a right, hard won. I refuse to squander mine.