My daughter just filled her gas eating car with diesel. It stalled out. What is involved in making it work again? Would the dealer be better than a private garage?
I am sure we will have some resident car experts here soon but I don’t think you need to take it to the dealer. She isn’t the first person to do this although it should be taken seriously. I also knew someone that did it and the repair was to drain the diesel at every possible point and fill with gas. That may be enough but I don’t know about fuel injectors or other possible damage.
Here are lots of useful anecdotes about it:
You will need to drain the fuel tank, and change change the fuel filter. Add some gas. Then you should disconnect the fuel line up near the injectors, and start the fuel pump and run some gas though the line until the diesel is gone. 1-2 minutes is probably more than enough time. FILL THE TANK this will dilute any remaining diesel.
Then reconnect the fuel line and start the engine.
There should be been no damage to the engine. None of the gas engine cars that I have done dieselectomies on ever did anyway.
ETA: No offense Shag but your cite sounds like the blind leading the blind. The first two “answers” are pure BS and old wives tales. :rolleyes:
You’re sure your daughter put diesel in it? When unleaded gas was introduced the nozzle diameter on the pumps changed.
This was to prevent putting leaded gas in a car made for unleaded (when leaded gas was still available).
I’ll guess about the early '80s.
Diesel pumps (in the US) are still of the larger diameter. It simply won’t fit in the tube on a realitively modern gas driven vehicle.
In any case, a lot more information is needed. The year and model of car will be needed before anyone can begin.
I won’t be the guy to answer this, but if diesel was put in a modern (more or less) car the entire fuel system will probably need to be flushed out. Possibly even removing the gas tank to do so.
Older, non injected cars with carbs may not have as much of a problem. But the gas tank will probably have to be dropped if it was filled with diesel.
On the one hand, a private shop may be more willing to flush things out, while a dealership may want to replace a lot more parts. In my experience and IMHO.
So, to start, for other Dopers to answer, What is the make model and year of the car?
Rick got it and I was just waiting for him to show. Perhaps he does not need the information.
And dauerbach. Not knowing you or your daughter, I asked if you are sure that she put diesel in the car because just recently a thread was started that asked “What can I add to my gas to get better mileage”.
I could see a young driver trying to do something to do this. Mistakes are made, and that’s why it’s important to know if the car can even be filled with diesel.
First step.
While I agree that a diesel nozzle should not go into a unleaded tank neck, it is not impossible.
The restrictor in the filler neck might be bent/damaged or missing. It could be a pre '75 car that did not have a restrictor. The pump might have had the wrong nozzle screwed on the end.
The problem with trying to make something foolproof is that someone is always inventing a new and improved fool.
dauerbach Ask your daughter what color the boot over the pump nozzle was. If the answer is green, she put diesel in. Or if she used a credit card, look at the receipt.
Again without knowing the year make or model, I am guessing here, but I don’t think dropping the tank will be necessary. Let’s say that just using the fuel pump gets all but 1 quart out. When you fill the tank with say 20 gallons, that 1 quart is pretty diluted. 1 quart diesel to 80 quarts of gas. This should not represent a problem.
The fuel filter must be changed. Other than that, I can’t think of any parts that would need to be changed.
A serious suggestion: Make god damn sure you tell the shop (dealer or independent makes no difference) exactly what happened. I had an asshole service manager lie to me about why a car would not start. I wasted four fucking hours trying to figure out why that piece of shit would not start. I want my those four hours of my life back.
ask me about it, I dare you.
ETA subscription
Well, when she called to say it was stalled she mentioned that she had a lot of trouble filling the tank, the nozzle didn’t seem to fit and it took a long time to fill. Then I drove her to the station and she recognized that she had used the green nozzle. No question. Diesel. About 7 gallons in a 12 gallon tank. The car is a Chevrolet Cavalier, 2003 I believe. I asked the tow truck driver when was the last time he had seen anyone do anything this freaking dumb. He looked at his watch and said “About 4:30. I get two or three of these a day.” Hard for me to believe, but that is what he said. His truck is diesel, and he says that lots of times the nozzle is standard, not the oversized one. He doesn’t know for sure, but thinks they will drain the tank, flush the lines, and replace the plugs. I don’t think it ruins anything per se, all the diesel just has to be removed from the engine.
And I towed it to the dealer and wrote on the night drop slip “Seven gallons of diesel put in tank. Car stalled after about 200 yards.” I think that this is fairly unequivocal. And how do they use the fuel pump to empty the tank? Do the disconnect the line from the fuel pump and then just keep turning it over until it is empty?
Yeah, new plugs is a great idea. The diesel coats the plugs and they get wet, and won’t fire. Replace them last, just before trying to start the car.
ETA: Depends. On many cars the diagnostic tool allows them to run the pump. On other we just jumper the fuel pump relay.
Or you can just crank the shit out of it.
Also, to Rick in particular, how much does this generally cost. I took it to the dealer because in the past they have been accurate in diagnosis, and never tried to rip me off. The private mechanic I use doesn’t do American cars. However, if they sound like they want to do a bunch of weird stuff, I will just refuse, and find someone who will do the minimum to make it work.
That is a tough question to answer. Labor rates vary with area.
A wild assed guess (which is worth just what you paid for it, and no more)
Drain tank, replace fuel filter and flush lines. No more than 1.5 hours max.
Replace plugs. This is a tough. I have no clue how hard it is to do plugs on a Caviler. Say 1 hour as a max amount. Probably less.
Above are labor times only, multiply by the driveway labor rate to get an idea of the labor cost. Add parts prices to above.
If the car in question was a current model 5 cylinder Volvo the labor would be about 1.3 hours total. Give or take as I don’t have a time guide at home.
I would not expect you to have to pay any diagnostic time as you told them up front what the problem was. At least I would not have the balls to charge you diagnostic time based on what you wrote on the nite drop ticket. IMnot soHO it would take a service adviser with great big hanging solid brass balls to charge diagnostic time on this ticket.
Double dog dare 
Bolding mine. 
And a slight hi-jack. I bought a '79 Yamaha 650 that was in pieces, but obviously rebuilt. The engine was still in the frame. Everything else was in boxes. It took me a couple of weeks to get the thing standing on its wheels again. Outside, sitting on my trailer.
It took me a long time to figure out that the engine was rebuilt 180 degrees off. Everything was spot on. Points, carbs, spark, compression. All perfect. I could not get so much as a burp out of the thing.
When it was ‘rebuilt’ the overhead cam was 180 off. I finally got down to pulling the valve covers on the damn thing to check which valve was opening at what point in the fireing cycle.
(I had already checked valve tolerances).
I switched the left coil to the right cylinder, and the right to left, and it fired right up.
And then I danced.
I am intrigued by your ideas and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
OK, you asked.
(note to mods, this gets a little rantish, but it is the context of the story, so I am leaving it here. If you feel that it is inappropriate, we can start a pit thread.)
I got a repair order for a 1973 Volvo P1800 Sportwagon. The ticket said
“Won’t start”(BTW for those playing along at home, this is the single worst description ever written on a work order. It does not tell the technician jack shit. Did the car die while driving? Did it not start one AM? Is it a tow in from another shop? No start can be anything from a dead battery to a blown engine.)
So I hunted down the shit for brains service manager that wrote the fucking ticket and asked him what the deal was.
So this waste of protoplasm says “The guy came out this morning and it just would not start.”
So I set off looking for something in the fuel or ignition system that has degraded to the point of preventing the car from starting. Fair enough. I go get the car, and try it. It cranks, tries to start and then dies. Over and over again.
Now I should note one thing for you the gentle reader. There is a perception problem wih P1800 owners. Ever since Irv Gordon broke 1 million miles in his P1800 they all think that their car will also go that far. However the part of the equation that they don’t grok is that Irv maintains his car. The average brain dead 1800 owner on the other hand just drives the shit out of the car it till it quits. Then he gets pissed, because it is supposed to go 1,000,000 miles like Irv’s did. :rolleyes:
So I start looking at this car. Look in the dictionary under “shitbox” I think there is a picture of this pile there. Everything I looked at was fucked. Plugs? Fucked. Instead of a gap of 0.032" it was almost 0.075" with the worst lead fouling I have ever seen. Points? Fucked. Pitted beyond belief. Trigger points for the fuel injection? Fucked. Only one side was opening. Plug wires? Fucked. Cracked and firing to ground some times. Cap and rotor? Do you really need to ask? Fucked. This was in 1989, and I seriously don’t think this car had been in a shop since Ford was in the White House.
So I replace all the obviously bad parts.
won’t start.
So I pull the cold start line and take a pressure test. 29.5 PSI, spec is 30. I adjust the fuel pressure regulator just to be sure.
I do a fuel pump draw test (put fuel line in bottle and crank to make sure plenty of gas is delivered. Lots of fuel. I smell the fuel sample, smells like good gas to me. I set the fuel sample aside.
Now the car really does not want to start. At all.
I pull the plugs back out and they are wet. WTF? Clean the plugs and replace. Still won’t start. I start checking every single sensor in the system thinking the car is flooding. Everything checks to spec. I pull the valve cover to check the valve timing. It appears to be OK. I take a compression test. That is also OK.
By now it is 4:30 and I am contemplating seeing if Micky D’s is hiring so I don’t have to face this pile in the AM. I decide to knock off early, go home and get drunk, because obviously I can’t fix cars.
As I am locking my toolbox, I look over at my work bench. The sun is streaming trough the window and though the soda bottle of fuel that I pulled earlier. The fuel sample looks straw colored.
“That’s odd” I think, “I don’t recall gas being straw colored”
So I smell it again, smells just like gas.
So I clear off a space on my metal bench and spill some there. I grab a match (NOTE: This is a REALLY dumb idea, I think I was hoping the damn shop would burn down and take the car with it) and light the fuel.
It goes flicker, flicker and goes out leaving a puddle on the table top.
WTF?
I run my finger through the puddle and smell them. Diesel.
FUCK.
The cold start hose was a dead end. It had gas in it, until I took my sample. Enough gas to smell like gas, not diesel.
That is why when I first started to start the car, it tired to start (firing on the fuel in the cold start line) and when the CS injector shut off, the engine died. This is also why the car really did not want to start after I took the gas out of the CS injector line.
Light bulbs came on.
The next day, I replaced the fuel filter, flushed the lines, and got the car running in about 20 minutes.
I then went to shit for brains and told him to CALL the customer and get the real story, not just invent one off the top of his pin head.
He came back with “The customer stated that he stopped for gas, a non-English speaking attendant pumps something into the tank. He left the station, the car started running poorly and died, and he had it towed in.”
You fucking ASSHOLE, if had told me that I would have had that car done before lunch, instead I fuck around until 4:30 because you were too fucking stupid to do your fucking job. I lost 4 hours pay because of you. I want that afternoon back!
That is why I told dauerbach to make sure he told them. I don’t know the guy that will be working on the car, but I don’t want him to be behind the same 8 ball I was.
Brain Wreck This is one of the few times where the customer can diagnose the defect with about a 99.999% chance of being right. Most of the time, customer diagnosis are a great source of humor in the shop. if you doubt this read a few GQ threads about cars.
They may be required to run diagnostics on the emission control system to verify that it’s all in good working order. The dealership will probably do this… a local garage may not.
A mate and I borrowed a Volvo PV444 that had stood in a barn for eight years and drove it from Borås to Stockholm to attend a Leonard Cohen concert.
Filled her up on the way back and were a bit concerned about the smokescreen we were leaving behind us but were clueless as to why it might be.
Realised after quite a while that we had filled up with diesel instead of petrol.
It never bothered the PV in the slightest, just filled it up with petrol again and it never noticed the difference. I have a suspicion that it would have run on powdered coal. Brilliant car, even had a hand throttle - do it yourself cruise control!
Rick: Great story. Sorry about the pay. As somebody who has fixed stuff off other’s trouble tickets I sympathize. And as somebody who’s had jobs which include creating trouble tickets for others I always try hard to provide the complete story and separate fact from conjecture.
What lights my fire is when I bring my car to a shop, verbally provide 3 (or 10) paragraph’s worth of symptoms under different conditions, then after the work is done I see the trouble ticket where the service writer had just entered “runs rough” or “won’t start” in the computer, and not another damn word. So that’s all the tech had to go on.
Someday when I am King, fully half of humanity’s carbon output for the first two weeks will be bonfires of the bodies of the incompetent and the assholic.
I hate to say it, but I did this once. Probably around 10 years ago, with a 1990 integra. I made it the requisite 100 yards or so, then it died.
I don’t remember any difficulty getting the nozzle in, so I’m going to believe those who say that sometimes they don’t have oversized nozzles.
I also remember getting it towed to a shop, and they drained the tank and that was that. It wasn’t expensive and and I was in and out pretty fast.
dauerbach I hope your daughter doesn’t feel too bad. If it’s any consolation, an aircraft refueller, who is paid to know better, put Jet A1 fuel into my piston engine aircraft just two days ago. It has a similar effect to diesel in a petrol engine.
Dauerbach, I too hope your daughter doesn’t feel bad. My husband put diesel into our car a few years ago, and he was definitely old enough to know better. [insert exasperated wife rolleyes here] But, see, there was this long line at Hucks, and that particular pump didn’t have anybody in front of it, so, chortling happily at his acumen, he swooped in and filled 'er up…
And then had to have it towed.
IIRC, it set us back about $500, although you have probably already received the damage estimate by the time you read this.