I have run across a few fact I am curious about.
It seems Russians wear their wedding rings on the right hand.
(one being Hedrick Smith)
I also recall they cross themselves backwards.
(when I was there on vacation)
Why the difference?
What made the Russians chose right hand and the Catholics the left?
any other oddities between the two?
help !
One word:
Filoque
ok well I cannot find Filoque in the dictonary…
it wants me to choose between frolic and flick… can you elaborate?
Dammit, my pithiness was brought down by incorrect spelling.
The word is FILIOQUE
And it’s Latin.
if you add to that historical fight, the fact that the third prophecy of Fatima was/is that Russia would return to Catholicism, you have an idea of the political import of the Roman Pope’s visit to Russia.
p.s. - the Russian crucifix is much cooler:
http://www.russianisland.com/wwwroot/thumbnails/161-3-37.jpg
“I believe in the Holy Ghost… who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified”… filioque in Latin. The Russian version of the Nicene Creed says, “who proceedeth from th Father…”
It’s what caused the theological split between East and West (WAG).
Also, you don’t get to sing hymns in Russian churches, just chant. And you say the Kyrie 40 times during service. And the services are much longer.
Russian Orthodox churches don’t have pews. At least the ones in Russia I saw. Everybody stands.
For the whole darn thing.
I’ve also heard that there aren’t any pews - is that just urban legend?
(One day I’ll go and see).
Priests are not always celibate in Orthodox Churches unless they aspire to the higher clergy. And Divorce is permitted in some cases.
To get more technical, Roman Catholics have a very structured formal relationship with God and Jesus, that seems to have an almost juridical nature - wheras the Eastern Orthodox emphasises more mystical connections (Protestants of course speak much of ‘getting to know Jesus’ one on one).
Also while Orthodoxy venerates the Virgin Mary as well, I believe the Catholic Church goes much further in Marianism.
The original split was over Icons of course (with Orthodoxy being more critical of them), even though in the modern churches both have higghly developed Iconography. Orthodox Icons can be intrepreted in very specific ways - which was valuable in the Czarist era, when some 80% of Russians were illiterate.
I found this on a Ukrainian Orthodox Church website:
From http://www.uocofusa.org/reflections/questions/seek_pews.shtml
Their are two primary differences of doctrine.
The nature of the Trinity: whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone, or from the Father and the Son. For the ordinary churchgoer this is perhaps not something which affects his daily observance very much.
The nature of authority in the Church, and in particular the nature of the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over other patriarchs.
Beyond that, their theology and doctrine are very similar, although they may attach more or less emphasis to different points.
Historically, there is also a degree of bad feeling and suspicion between the RCs and the Orthodox over how they have treated one another.
Many of the more obvious differences between them are matters of style, not substance. Both churches would agree that whether you cross yourself starting from the right or the left, or whether you celebrate sacraments in Latin, Slavonic or another language, or whether priests marry are not, in the end, central issues.
Lissla-I believe they DO sing-but no instruments are allowed. Everything is sung a capella. It’s very beautiful.
The only thing they’re allowed to use are bells.
Check out the Rachmaninoff Vespers, one of the most gorgeous pieces of choral music known to mankind. I like the Robert Shaw Chorale recording for its great liner notes. Orthodox liturgical music is amazing!
Can’t tell you much about the theological stuff, though. Hedrick Smith was not Russian (he’s American, but spent years in Russia as a journalist), but let me know if you know the answer to the wedding ring mystery. I posted a GQ about it months ago, but nobody knew the answer.
I’m not sure that the wedding ring thing is an Orthodox -v- Western Christian thing at all. Rings do get mentioned in Western Christian marriage services but they’re not very important and they can be dispensed with if the couple wish. And whether they get worn on the left hand or the right is probably a matter of social convention. You may find that all Russians, regardless of religion, wear wedding rings on their right hands.
True enough that all residents of the FSU wear wedding rings on the right hand, but I thought that might just be peer pressure. Many of htem switch to the left when they immigrate to the U.S. I’ve also known Romanians and Bulgarians who wear them on the right hand, but not Poles or Hungarians, which is why I thought it might be a Catholicism vs. Orthodoxy thing.
Where do Western Armenians wear them, maybe?
In Holland, generally the Catholics wear wedding rings on the right hand, and Protestants on the left.
Jeez (no pun intended), you just had to throw another one into the mix, didn’t you?
True, they do sing. My sister in law works as a choral leader in a Russian Orthodox church and she certainly sings (very beautifully too). I don´t know about the bells though. I´ve only been to one service and there were no bells used then. I´ll have to ask her or my wife about it.
Of the two russian churches I´ve been to none has pews.
Well like others have said, the theological differences are pretty small between the Orthodox and the Catholics.
Here are some more practical differences:
Cheers,
Mimi!
One of the major dividing points underlying the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches was the role of the Pope. The Catholics viewed him as infallible and the supreme authority, while the Orthodox viewed him as “first among equals” - the bishop of Rome, who carried more weight than other bishops in ecclesiastical matters, but not the final word on God’s law.
cuate has it backwards - it was the RCC who was more critical of icons than Orthodoxy. Icons are still physically venerated in Orthodox churches - bowing, kissing, the whole nine yards.
Russian Orthodox churches, at the least, don’t have pews - they do have benches for the elderly worshipers - and the service is entirely accapella, as has been noted.
I forget exactly when the schism occurred - ca. 1054 AD comes to mind - but before that they were one church, with the result that even today the Orthodox and Catholic churches venerate many of the same early saints, Edward the Confessor of England being one of them.
Full disclosure: I converted to Orthodoxy some 13 years ago when I was living in Alaska. Didn’t continue it for very long; by 1992 I was totally lapsed. But the expatriate church in Massachusetts was a total trip.