Cecil is correct that the middle finger salute has a history long preceding the Battle of Agincourt (1415). But that battle represents a singular moment for the symbol. It’s the first time in history - ever - that the middle finger salute was used with a non-vulgar intent. It was pure, in-your-face effrontery.
This use of the symbol had nothing to do with sex, the ‘f’ word or any other indecency. It was a proud statement of victory - “We can still pluck the Yew.” For the full story and an eye-witness account from Auntie Mullah, check out http://www.middlefingerparty.com , celebrating the birth date of that historic event.
RGM
Cecil doesn’t come right out and say it, but the whole story of the middle finger or other finger gesture being used by archers at Agincourt is suspect. That idea that a particular finger gesture (the rude two-finger salute with palm inward, the V for victory with palm outward, or the middle finger, depending on the telling) was invented at Agincourt has been around for a few decades at least. I doubt the story much older than that. The proposed origin of “fuck you” as a corruption of “pluck yew” is surely a joke, and a very recent one. If you know of a printed reference to the phrase “pluck yew” from before 1997, I’d like to see it. See What Is the History of the Middle Finger? | Snopes.com and http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/more/302/
RGMakin, that website you link to is worthless as a reliable source for etymologies. There’s no doubt, for instance, that the etymology of “shit” as coming from “Ship High in Transit” is fake. If you look at the website that it links to called “The Holey Bible according to St. Snopes”, it’s clear that the creator of the “Middle Finger Birthday Party” website has decided that any story he wants to believe must be correct and anyone who disagrees with him is just a jerk who’s spoiling his fun. You’ll also note that this guy has a lot of political issues that he wants to push too.
Why would he know that better than anyone? Are you saying that RGMakin created the website he linked to? How do you know that? Are you saying that RGMakin chose to link to that website because of its politics? You seem to know that RGMakin doesn’t actually care about the etymology but is only posting a link because of its politics. How do you know that he’s not interested in etymology (rather than just not knowing much about the subject)?
Notice the “Puff the Magic Dragon” piece on that page is signed RGM, just like the OP signed his post. And the email address to get listed on that page is “bob@middlefingerparty.com”. I’m pretty sure our OP is the author of that site.
You mean people post comments with links in them just to publicize their own sites? First, the fact that everything on the Internet isn’t true. And, now you’re telling me that people post comments just to shill their sites.
I’m so upset. Next thing you’ll tell me is that Cecil Adams doesn’t really exist.
Read the Middle Finger website, several articles - including the relevant “Eyewitness Account” one - are signed “RGM”.
By the way, that article is a load of crap. There is no “Aunty Mulluh” - that is a link to a site called “Anti Mullah”, that basically repeats the Snopes article urban legend. There is no eye witness account. That’s a modern 20th century color photograph, for pete’s sake. And there’s no way the quoted text was written in 1415.
The OP is pushing his own point of view and lying to make it. He provides no historical justification for his claim.
That appears to be the root of his complaint. Look, humor is one thing (and you should study up on that), but snopes is about historical accuracy.
Then there’s this bit of brilliance:
It is correct that “fuck” is often used to convey contempt, and the form “fuck you” is not typically expected to be taken literally. But the origin of the phrase derives from the sex act. The contentiousness of the phrase comes because of the historical sensitivity to the word. All your hand waving can’t make that go away.
I will grant that this is at odds with what snopes says. Nevertheless, it is one thing to be aware that a particular vocal trend occurs and quite another to argue that it occurred in a specific case.
I grant that snopes is inaccurate in that they believe the claim is that the word “fuck” originated through a corruption of “pluck”. As I take the claim, it is that the difficult phrase “pluck yew” became corrupted over time to be pronounced as if it were the existing word “fuck”, and thus was mistaken to be a sex referent. However, I dispute that this claim is correct. “Pluck yew” and “pleasant mother pheasant plucker” are almost certainly 20th century derivations to manufacture word histories for comedic value.
Fear Itself
The OP is certainly pushing his own agenda and linking to his own site as his sole cite. It has a very porkish flavor.
