No according to YOU they are guilty of war crimes. You are accussing them of participating in mass-murder which is a clear violation of any number of international treaties. ‘Just following orders’ is no legal defense no matter how much they were ‘lied’ to.
Lets put aside the moral debate for a second here. Here is my logic let me know where you think it breaks down. (1) Mass-murder is being commited in Iraq (2) Mass murder is against a myriad of international laws (3) American soldiers know that an order to committ mass murder is an unlawful order (4) American soldiers have an obligation to not follow unlawful orders (5) American soldiers are perpetuating this Mass murder (6) American soldiers are guilty of war crimes.
I suggest you stop making outrageous claims about soldiers commiting war crimes to grind a partisan axe. I also suggest when called on your illogical bullshit not to accuse the Doper of having it in for soldiers.
My questions still stand. Are you going to defend your accusations or shall we go ahead and write you off as a dishonest shrill?
You have accused the basic grunt of a war crime. President Bush isn’t over there mass murdering Iraqis himself. American grunts are doing so and by doing so are committing a war crime.
What point do you deny?
(1) Mass-murder is being commited in Iraq (2) Mass murder is against a myriad of international laws (3) American soldiers know that an order to committ mass murder is an unlawful order (4) American soldiers have an obligation to not follow unlawful orders (5) American soldiers are perpetuating this Mass murder (6) American soldiers know they are perpetuating mass murder (7) Therefore American soldiers are knowingly violating international law i.e. commiting a war crime.
You’re spinning your wheels on this. I am never going to say that the troops are morally responsible. They didn’t know that they were being lied to when they were told to enter the the country. They didn’t know that the orders were illegal. They are guilty of nothing.
I am not talking moral responsibility at this point. I am talking legal responsibility. Unless you are grossly misusing the term mass murder (DING DING DING) I cannot see how it is possible that soldiers did not know they were commiting it. How exactly did american soldiers commit mass murder without knowing it? And if they didn’t know they were committing it how is it murder?
I ask you one more time which point do you find fault with in my logic?
(1) Mass-murder is being commited in Iraq (2) Mass murder is against a myriad of international laws (3) American soldiers know that an order to committ mass murder is an unlawful order (4) American soldiers have an obligation to not follow unlawful orders (5) American soldiers are perpetuating this Mass murder (6) American soldiers know they are perpetuating mass murder (7) Therefore American soldiers are knowingly violating international law i.e. commiting a war crime.
They didn’t know the orders were unlawful. They didn’t know that the justification for the war was a lie. They thought they were defending the US against a threat.
How could they not know? If I am order to go out and mass murder a bunch of Iraqi civilians how could I possibly not realize it? Wouldn’t the numerous innocent Iraqi’s that I just killed clue me in?
If you are claiming that the war was illegal then claim that. Claiming mass-murder is an extremely serious charge that you should be backing up with a plethora of evidence. If indeed mass-murder has taken place in Iraq everyone from the President down to the ditch digging grunt is legally responsible. This is not my opinion this is a fact.
Legally, I don’t know. Morally, I don’t think so. Once there in the country they have to defend themselves. It’s not their fault they’re in there because of a lie.
Listen carefully, dumbfuck. The crime was ordering them to invade and occupy the country. They were told they had to do it to defend the US. They were told that collateral damage to civilians was a necessarily price to defend the US. The troops went in on good faith in the belief that they were following lawful orders.
Only those who knew that the invasion was based on a lie are responsible.
Collateral damage doesn’t meet the definition of murder dumbfuck. Nor does illegally invading a country constitute mass murder. If you choose to scream mass murder in the future would you kindly put an * and then add your definition of mass murder at the bottom of your post. It will be very helpful to people that don’t have access to Diogenes’s Dictionary.
Murder requires forethought numbnuts. Since all evidence points to the military actively trying to not kill civilians its going to be pretty tough for you to show forethought.
Unless of course murder means something in Diogenes world.
When you plan a war you know there will be civilian casualties even if you want to avoid them, so in a sense that’s a pretty old debate. I don’t know. I already weighed in on this anyway.
